Trouble with Armagedon

fdrpi

Prince
Joined
Feb 14, 2012
Messages
371
Location
Massachusetts
I've run into two similar problems in the game.

For both the Sheaim and Infernals, you want to spread the AV and raise the Armageddon Counter. The problem is that if you spread the Veil, razing the city will just decrease the counter, something the Sheaim should be doing.

It's worse for the Infernals, who automatically spread AV to conquered cities BEFORE you raze it. It seems that it makes it tremendously difficult to raise the AC as the Infernals.

So what do you do: spread AV or raze all the non-AV cities? How do you balance them as both the Sheaim and the Infernals?
 
Yes, this issue has been raised before. There isn't an obvious solution. Decide if you want to raise or spread.

Best wishes,

Breunor
 
But what about the Infernals? Am I right in that they overall have little control over the AC? They can spread AV and that's it. And having to control that many cities is a pain and a drag on maintenance.
 
But what about the Infernals? Am I right in that they overall have little control over the AC? They can spread AV and that's it. And having to control that many cities is a pain and a drag on maintenance.

Some other things they do as well. Building AC units like Rosier and Mardero. Gleefully spamming Ragnarok units if somebody lets them. Always picking the AC raising option from events.
 
True, but it's nothing compared to burning a 10 population order and empyrean city to the ground. :devil:

The Sheaim can raise it much easier. Raising by razing. :D

Or does Hell Terrain manipulate the AC? Or is it only an effect of the AC?
 
How about this: build settlers and let the Ai raze them cities. :lol:

Actually just build PoRagnarok.
 
Build Ragnarok, DONT go AV, stop spread of AV and inquisition AV whenever possible.

RAZE LIKE MAD ... :D



I think it would be better if ALL Ashen Veil cities had a small chance to add the Prophecy Mark to built units. (maybe have 'having veil as a religion' increase the AC to do the trick?)

while at the same time SUPER tone down the AC affects of city razing

--------------------------------------------

basically following the AV (and going down dark paths into the depths of that religion) should be the only major way to increase the AC ....

While to halt the rise of the AC (or to lower it) you should combat, kill, and/or inquisition those with the AV.

(As well as follow the Order, but moreso just to squash evil rather than to lower the AC by virtue of simply 'existing' ... the exception being Elohim rituals)

For Instance, Temples of the Veil could give 5% or 10% chance to give Prophecy Mark to units ...

Paladins (or order paladins) could lower the AC by killing demons. (a python call that lowers 'AC value' by 1 ... the normal kind, not the 1-100 kind we see)

Furthermore, units born with Prophecy Mark OR Stigmata .... could learn promos at high level that increase the AC.

(For instance, a promo at level 6 that requires Stigmata or Prophecy Mark that increases AC by 1 for each living kill, in same fashion as 'War' Does)

Also, to help AV followers survive the Appocalypse ... maybe Stigmata could lead to a promo that makes the user IMMUNE to the types of damage demons are immune to. That way, it requires both Stigmata, a level up, AND running the AV state religion at the time of promotion.
(I think this is possible, if not there are other ways to prevent exploits from non-AV adopters)

As I ways saying, Veil Temples could give prophecy mark (random chance, like Asylums giving crazed), while Demon Alters could give Stigmata (also a random chance)

If you want to make it balanced .... have the 'protective' promotion require only one of the promotions (either Mark or Stigmata) as well as running AV of course ...

While the AC increasing promo (like War) should require not only level 6 ... but ALSO ... BOTH promotions. Both Stigmata and Prophecy mark. No need to make THIS require AV fellowship, as you don't need to be AV to raze cities ;) (or even to spread AV now that I mention it ...)

A possibility at this point would be for the Wonders associated with these promotions to give a stronger version of the promos, but that would likely only increase further problems. Better to keep it 'relatively' simple.

I think there should be AV specific (or maybe just Sheaim specific?) buidlings which capitalize on hell resources.

Yes Nightmares are good, but AV followers, IF they invest the hammers in these specialist buildings ... which is a big if, should have a lot more mileage on the rest of the hell creatures (Toads, Gulagarm, Razorweed) than non AV followers.

Assigning one such bonus to the Planar Gate is a no brainer imho (im thinking +1 happy for Gulagarm)

Sacrificing to a Demon Altar should probably give more science. I could see possibilities with having more effects from sacrifices, but as its beyond my capabilities, I won't mention it. (I can do everything else I've mentioned EXCEPT for tweaking the City razing AC values, and will mention, with my own coding)

Personally I think one way to spice up Demon Altars is to allow them to open up a whole slew of new AV units, each specializes the city in some way (or just the one I am about to suggest ;))

Academy of Aeron: Adds the "Demon Officer" promotion, which gives immunity to fear, +1 unholy damage, and -20% Holy weakness. (perhaps even -20% vs angel race as well?) Only affects living units.

I guess it could also give +1 or +2 exp, but honestly I think its already strong enough :)

--> I think this could really make building the Demon's Altar more attractive, while not making the Altar itself stronger ... thereby requiring more hammer investment.

plus some specific buildings could help the Veil temple in increasing Prophecy Mark likelyhood.

(Although I wouldn't go beyond a combined 50% for full investment, even if that sounds pretty high right now)

One possible fix (For Orcs spamming the Mark), would be to figure out a way to make the Warrens to not repeat the prophecy mark for the 'copy' ... however such work was already done to make sure the two are equal, that another approach might be favorable.

Something to consider about Prophecy mark ... instead of simply 'raising the AC' they could also make the units fight better, which would make an AV player more likely to use their Mark units, which means more AV players would be willing to pursue Mark units, which means the enemies of the Veil would have a greater likelihood of actually seeing Mark units in combat (to kill) ... which is sorely lacking in current FFH2 games. (Not that the change would cause this, but it would make it be more intuitive, and thus raise the chances of this occuring).

Suggestions include (+20% strength? like a free combat1?) and (+1 attack? not strength, just attack)

Although such strengths might just come from Promos that get UNLOCKED by prophecy mark.

---> Personally I don't think killing thousands of innocent civilians because a few happen to worship the AV would help all that much ...

hence razing AV cities should still cause a rise in the AC, just less of a rise. However! I don't know how to do this so in the meantime we will just have to work around this minor (or major) annoyance.

And Speaking of the Sheaim ... Chaos Mauraders are completely useless. They are weak, and can turn barb. And Tar Demons are just annoying ... I want to be TAKING cities, not defending them! Revelers are pretty bland too.

Therefore I took out Chaos Mauraders (instead I have Pitbeasts summoned via Veil Temples)

and I moved Tar Demons to (Walls), as you'll only need one with the other, as they are both defensive.

I also added Marksmen to revelers ... to make them more interesting, and truly deadly.

I also made sure all of the Mobius witches had useful spells. So I took out Fire 1 and Nature 1, replacing them with Fire 2 and Nature 2. Mobius witches take ages to level up, so I didn't want to make the unit (almost awesome) ... and you'll always remember the turn your Nature2 (or even a Law3) Mobius witch spawned ...

Although I might take out Law3 (see replace with another spell, the code doesn't break if you don't change the number of available spells) in favor of something else ... the Escape spell? Ie a promotion I would tie to the escape spell for a number of reasons other than only this purpose.

Escape spell would be flavorful for the Sheaim (Ceridwen/ Dimensional magic) ... and if a modmod uses actual spells for the Dimensional Sphere, I'd choose one of those (if I was basing a mod on that particular modmod)
 
Top Bottom