Trying to summarize rules on visibility and sight?

[Athenaeum]

I am trying to completely summarize the rules on visibility and sight.

For example, I know that a standard unit has 2 sight.

However, when I was messing around with the IGE mod, I noticed that I could see hills that were 3 tiles away, but only when the 2 tiles in between my unit and the hill were flat, open terrain.


But when I was playing a game just now, I could see a forest hill on the other side of a clear hill when i was standing on a flat plain tile.

Anyways I'm confused. If someone could post like a summary of the rules or something that would be great.

 

[Aenthin]

I'm just guessing here, but based on my test with the Shoshone...

1. Hills and Mountains can be seen from three tiles away if there is unobstructed vision between you and the hill or mountain
2. Mountains can only be obstructed completely by other mountains

Now here's where it gets less clear.

3. Plain hills* do not obstruct Forest/Jungle hills
4. Forests/Jungles do not obstruct Forest/Jungle hills
5. Forests/Jungles fully obstruct plain hills*
6. Forest/Jungle hills fully obstruct everything else except Mountains and when standing on them
7. Mountains 3 tiles away can only be seen in from a straight line if there are hills in between**

* By plain hills, I mean desert, snow, tundra, grassland or plains hills.
** This seems very inconsistent, though. It probably has something to do with forest/jungle hills.

I guess if I would reclassify:

Level 0 - These are tiles that do not obstruct anything. This includes coast, ocean, marsh, tundra, snow, plains, and grassland
Level 1 - These tiles obstruct only up to level 1 tiles. This includes forests, jungles and plain hills
Level 2 - These tiles obstruct up to level 2 tiles and partially obstructs mountain tiles. This includes forest hills and jungle hills
Level 3 - These tiles obstruct everything. This only include mountain tiles.
Level 4 - These tiles are part of your and your allies' territories and therefore always provide vision up to 1 tile away from the boundary regardless. Only cities and artillery get to shoot unobstructed, however.

 

[joncnunn]

Tiles 2 hexes away visibility works as expected.

For tiles 3 hexes away, the visibility goes thru specific hexes on the 2nd ring. And so there are situations in which you have no visibility to the 3rd ring hex when if the path had gone the other way you would.

The effect of this was somewhat reduced in G&K when Battleships & Artillery got Indirect Fire added as automatic promotions, so it mostly affects the English Longbow.

 

[Athenaeum]

@Aenthin - when I was playing around with the IGE, I discovered that forest/jungle hills can actually obstruct the view of mountains that are 3 tiles away.

 

[poom3619]

Because it is so. I guess. BTW, Did IGE mod alter the visibility rule?

 

[Athenaeum]

A good question, I would assume not?

 

[Aenthin]

@Aenthin - when I was playing around with the IGE, I discovered that forest/jungle hills can actually obstruct the view of mountains that are 3 tiles away.

It's inconsistent, though. Again, sometimes I could see mountains despite the forest/jungle hill. I'm still trying to discern what are the rules about that.

Because it is so. I guess. BTW, Did IGE mod alter the visibility rule?

IGE doesn't alter visibility unless you set the map to Reveal all.

 

[Athenaeum]

Well, I only discovered that forest/jungle hills could obscure the view of mountains that were three tiles away. Maybe you can still see mountains from 2 tiles away if there are rough terrain hills adjacent to you. I don't know.

 

[reddishrecue]

That's carthage ua.
Ps
America also has a sight bonus, allowing you to see an extra tile unless there's view obstructions such as forests, hills, etc.

 

[Athenaeum]

What does Carthage UA have to do with visibility and sight?

 

[Aenthin]

What does Carthage UA have to do with visibility and sight?

Probably because they could walk on mountains.

 

[Athenaeum]

I guess standing-on-mountain visibility would become a new thing but besides that I don't see what else would change.

 

[reddishrecue]

Carthage ua allows only carthage to walk on mountains.

 

[beetle]

Anyways I'm confused. If someone could post like a summary of the rules or something that would be great.

See this illustrated post in particular on the War Academy article.

The short of it is that perspective is taken into account. So sighting in one direction can be different than another. It is not random, but even after reading the article and playing quite a bit, it still feels pretty arbitrary to me.

 

[shaglio]

On a slight tangent, I wish I understood ranged targeting better. More specifically the 3 range units. It infuriated me when I waste a turn setting up my Artillery only to discover that I can't actually hit the target I was aiming for. I wish there was a way to know what I could hit before I use up a precious movement point.

Maybe I'll bring this up to the EUI folks.

 

[beetle]

@shaglio, peruse that article I linked to. It really does clear things up -- even I am still bad with making line-of-sight predictions.

Arty is so much easier because of the indirect fire. You can hit any hex within three hexes. You will need a spotter or spy in the target city. Obstructions are hardly an issue with the spotter requirement since siege units have reduced vision anyway. Spotter can be a civilian unit, but I prefer melee units with cover promotion since they can just stand there and endure the city bombardment. But any unit works so long as there is at least two clear hexes next to the city.

Support unit moves in a hex to get LoS on city. Arties fire. Support unit moves back. Rinse/Repeat. What could be simpler?

If you don't have the two clear hexes, then the support unit needs to be a horse. And you need a unit to take the city once it is reduced to zero health anyway.

 

[Aenthin]

You can even use a spy as a spotter for artillery.

 

[Bimblecrumbs]

Exactly, artis can hit any tile within a radius of 3 if that tile is visible. If you're low on melee units and want to protect their hp for a later capture, step in and back with a mounted unit or a great general (onto flatland and back).

 

[shaglio]

Arty is so much easier because of the indirect fire.

Perhaps I was think of pre-Arty units with Range promotion. Sometimes I'm convinced my +1 Range Cannon can hit a city, so I set-up and discover I misjudged the situation.

 

[beetle]

Sometimes I'm convinced my +1 Range Cannon can hit a city, so I set-up and discover I misjudged the situation.

That happens to me with the archer line all the time. Again, that article convinced me that it is not random. But I still cannot always predict success (or not), and it still feels arbitrary. You might have better success internalizing the algorithms than I have. So read the article.