TSG 236 Opening Actions Thread

[Rhodro]

Just lost my first attempt at turn 75. Completely wiped off the map by atilla.
I took 1 city from monty with the guided missle, couldn't keep it because he spammed so many units from his 3 cities.
Atilla dow-ed me twice. I even had a citadel in front of my cap on a hill with a spearman parked on it, it didn't matter he totally ran over me.
Crazy game lmao.

 

[lerrocco]

Atilla is a beast in domination. I would like to play this scenario as the Huns, that would be fun, and a lot easier.

 

[Rhodro]

Many new attempts, at turn 97 now. I conquered Atilla completely and took montezuma's capital. He has one city left that will soon fall.
Conquering atilla fast is doable by creating 3 scouts and rushing the warrior first NE, take a ruin and upgrade him to spearman. Then rush them all to fountain of youth for promotion, then all back to atilla. Then constantly harrass him, I was able to take 1 settler. So he only planted 1 city besides capital. I used 4 missiles on atilla. 1 for each of his 2 cities and 2 to kill 2 battering rams. Then the scouts fly in to take cities. When you take his 2nd city all his remaining units die.

After atilla i spammed archers instead of buildings, with cheaper upgrades of honor I upgraded them all to get 5 composite bows and 2 war elephants, montezuma didn't do much and can easily be killed with that.

I joined denmark into war with zulu. This was a funny choice, because after a few turns shaka gave me his 2nd best city. It even had writing guild lol. I pupetted that one and its building walls now. Peacy treaty with shaka is over so I'm wondering if he will let me keep it or he gonna dow me to take it back. He's still at war with greece and denmark so I don't expect it.

 

[The_Black_Vegetable]

Then rush them all to fountain of youth for promotion, then all back to atilla. Then constantly harrass him, I was able to take 1 settler. So he only planted 1 city besides capital. I used 4 missiles on atilla.

Yeah, I suspected this was the way to play the early game: to put him under direct pressure, although that is still easier said than done against Attila than, say, Ghandi himself or William. In my one successful attempt, I did not do any early war at all, but it did feel a little against the spirit of the setup to completely ignore the missiles. I only used them for tributing, and that meant my spearman was not there to harass the Huns. I find it an an interesting mechanism, being able to tribute city states early game (and occasionally later when doing war and passing by a CS with your army), but on Deity it's never possible (with the exception of Huns and an early battering ram), so perhaps I went a little crazy with it.

 

[lerrocco]

Then rush them all to fountain of youth for promotion, then all back to atilla.

I think I missed a trick here, I hadn't ever seen the fountain before and have only just read what it does. I would have settled it for sure if I had known how useful it was. I was desperate for happiness and went for the quick gold fix..

Well done getting Monte's capital so early!

 

[zxcvbob]

Turn 102. I've tried to pay Monty and Attila to attack each other to wear them down and buy me some time but neither was interested. I was building up to attack the Huns first. Then Monty declared war on me and I just repelled his attack; we are still at war but he'll probably give me peace if I ask for it. I lost one spearman and a scout, and maybe an archer I don't remember; my city was never in danger. I still have all my missiles. I'd push the battle to him but it would be suicide because he has the Great Wall and I took a peek at Tlatelolco and it's defended by pikes and comp-bows. I'm building pikes now. Attila is the weakest at the moment; he asked me to join him in a war against Greece about 30 turns ago and I said yes. That war must not be going so well for him. (I've killed one Greek scout, then made peace with Alex as soon as I could) I should see if Monty will make peace -- for 10 turns anyway -- and go on the offensive against Attila. I think that's my plan as soon as I get a couple of pikes.

Pretty early in the game I cleared a barb camp that was a quest for Florence and I returned their worker, making them an ally for a good long time -- except Attila immediately declared war on them. I should have kept the worker 'cuz I needed one at the time. I did get a few turns of culture out of the deal so it wasn't a total loss. The missiles were useless for demanding tribute from CS's. I didn't expect that.

I just completed Liberty and need to decide what GP to take. Probably a scientist, and start working my markets to generate a merchant next. Don't know what policies to take next; Tradition, Honor, or Commerce. BTW I did get Petra. I could have had Desert Folklore for my pantheon but I thought God-King would be more useful.

FoY was a nice touch. I settled next to it so all my new units can go visit it, and to keep enemies away from it. Also I needed a second city for the unit cap, and it has built a couple of my archers. I thought it would be nice to build the Great Lighthouse there, but someone else built it before I could even start. I could use some iron.

 

[The_Black_Vegetable]

The missiles were useless for demanding tribute from CS's. I didn't expect that.

You can check the demographics on turn 1, and it will show you are top army with 65k military (just the warrior is only 9k, and the AI start with 20k, and it rises rapidly for them). This is certainly an important factor in tributing, but not the only one. You also need "military near city state", and for that the early spearman upgrade is important. For flatland city states (and most of them in this game are) of population 3 or less, a single spearman is enough for 50 strength. In the screenshot below you can see I have 125 versus a threshold of 120, so I can tribute.

If you don't get a spearman upgrade, you need at least one more warrior in range of the city state. However, by the time you build another warrior and walk it over, Alexander may have pledged to protect it (another -20), so then you would need even more military near the CS, etc., and it becomes infeasible to tribute. Alternatively, if you settle a city close to Atilla and move all your missiles there, you would also have enough probably.

 

[zxcvbob]

@The_Black_Vegetable Thanks. Yes, I was 10 point shy of demanding tribute from Hong Kong, which *is* in range of the missiles, and I had a warrior next to them and an archer kinda close-by. (I did not get the spearman upgrade) By the time I had an elephant, they had spearmen of their own and weren't impressed.

 

[raider980]

Wow, glad to see I'm not the only one who was having a tough time of it! (Except @zxcvbob , how'd you manage to escape the wrath of Atilla?) I'm doing pretty well I guess; T100 and I'm still alive on my first try.

This game did not go at all how I anticipated before starting. Five missiles I thought, cool, I can finally take it to the Deity AI instead of the other way around. Boy was I wrong. First I met Atilla and was like ok; then Monte and Alex and I realized what was going on - give us advanced units AND the worst warmongers in the game. After I met Shaka I figured Genghis would be out there somewhere - but no, it was Harold, probably a good move for the game setup since Harold is less reasonable than Genghis who can actually be a good friend sometimes. A great setup for a game!

The combo of domination, our UU and the starting missiles had me take a completely different approach to the early game. And its a good thing I did given what happened. Instead of going Pottery like usual, I decided to not even bother with a religion and went straight for The Wheel to get the UU. Then to Bronze Working for Spearmen. Then to Philosophy and next beelined Civil Service for Pikemen. I don't even have Masonry or Construction yet! The UU allowed me to entirely skip CBs. I did go full Tradition as usual - I figured it was the safest choice. I settled my second city on the Deer next to Fountain of Youth for the happiness, ease of getting units to, and because it was in missile range of Tenochitlan (which didn't end up mattering because I never used a missile on it.)

- Any trouble with the neighbors? Here's how it went down:

T31 Stole a worker from Ragusa; Alex didn't like that but I told him to go climb a tree since he was pretty far away and stayed at war to get future workers.
T32 Alex and Harold joint DoW Shaka - oh that is a good development!
T47 Atilla DoW me - and captured my worker I stole from Ragusa dagnabit. (That really hurt because I wouldn't get another worker for a very long time).

Spoiler Atilla Attacks :

I quickly changed my builds to Elephants and they, plus my vialliant original Warrior and my Scouts were able to fight off Atilla. With the help of two missiles - I had to use them to take out two Battering Rams that got next to the city.

But then on T59 Monte came a calling. Atilla's forces were on the run by then, so I DoW'd Monte so I would get first strike. It was a good choice, although a brave Scout had to sacrifice himself to save millions. My spearmen came online just in time to chase him back to Azetc lands. Monte seems weaker than Atilla and I have 3 missiles that can reach his cap so I peace out with Atilla and move all my forces towards Monte.

Spoiler Aztec invasion :

T74 Alex asks to joint DoW Harold. Sure, I say, Harold is no where near me so we won't fight but it will get those to at each others throats.

I go for Monte's expo first, its also in range of my missiles and kind of in the way of taking the capital. I had to use missiles on it though, it was tougher than I thought. And as others have mentioned, those missiles aren't really all that powerful. I figured they'd be able to one shot a city until at least Rennaissance, but no, they don't even take off half the city's health.

Spoiler T91 Capture Tenochtitlan! With no missiles even :

Spoiler T96 A pantheon, how'd that happen? And what the heck are you doing with that settler Shaka? I pick a pantheon that I've never even considered taking - Faith Healers. I figure I'm not going to keep the pantheon very long - I actually got Monte's Holy City. So if Atilla attacks again it will come in handy. :

T100 I liberate Bogota from the Aztec grip.

Spoiler T100 :

Now its decision time. What to do next? I'm going to peace out with Monte and move my army back to Dehli for defense in case Atilla decides to DoW me again. I'm not sure about Atilla. I've not had him in many of my games so I'm not sure if he's a backstabber or what. If it were Monte, or Harold, or Alex I could count on him attacking again... and again... and again. But Atilla may be more like Shaka and Genghis; willing to be a loyal ally. Problem is, he doesn't have anyone else to attack; no one else is really near him. Also, why hasn't he built a city off to the east of Delhi? There's iron and Gold there; and he's had a settler sitting in his southernmost city for ages just doing nothing. I would like to settle a city there myself, but I really can't afford the happiness hit, especially as India. I may do it anyway, I need iron and Gold would be a unique luxury.

What an awesome idea for a game! Thanks! I'm probably not going to win, and may not even survive, but its been tons of fun already.

 

[The_Black_Vegetable]

@zxcvbob actually, I'm not sure the missiles are in range for tributing. Depending on the map size, I believe you have to be 5 or 6 tiles away from the city. I'm not sure that's any different for ranged units. I've certainly never tried to tribute with guided missiles (not with stealth bombers either, for that matter).

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[zxcvbob]

@zxcvbob actually, I'm not sure the missiles are in range for tributing. Depending on the map size, I believe you have to be 5 or 6 tiles away from the city. I'm not sure that's any different for ranged units. I've certainly never tried to tribute with guided missiles (not with stealth bombers either, for that matter).

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Perhaps the fact that they could hit Hong Kong doesn't enter into the equation, they just add to my strength like a battleship on the wrong side of the map. But a warrior on their doorstep and an archer about 4 tiles away plus all the missiles wasn't good enough.

Wow, glad to see I'm not the only one who was having a tough time of it! (Except @zxcvbob , how'd you manage to escape the wrath of Atilla?) I'm doing pretty well I guess; T100 and I'm still alive on my first try.

I think it was the missiles that deterred him in the ancient era, and by the time he would be a threat (which can be *very* soon) we were at war with Alex. And he got stuck in a quagmire there Or perhaps I was just lucky (that doesn't happen very often)

Spoiler :

I made peace with Monty and declared war on Attilla, and used some missiles to take one of his cities. Happiness is fine because it had another luxury. It also had lots of workers. I killed his units that were trying to recapture the city, then tried to liberate Florence. I was going to need crossbows to take Attila's Court and I'm not quite there yet. The Battle of Florence was going okay but really slow, then Monty attacked me again so I had to make peace with Attila and go on defense again. Meanwhile, Alex liberated Florence. (I'm friends with Alex for the time being) I wouldn't be surprised if Alex eliminates Attila and then backstabs me.

 

[JeffreyLXV]

Turn four and Atilla has a pasture. Argh, deity.

 

[sebtanic]

Turn four and Atilla has a pasture. Argh, deity.

And a stable apparently?? Or how come he gets 2F3P?

 

[basior]

It's because of his civ trait. Attila starts with Animal Husbandry and has +1P per pasture.