TSG 237 Opening Actions Thread

Nizef

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This thread is used to discuss the game's opening decisions and strategies through the first 100 or so turns. Here you can post questions related to the game and share your achievements/anger/frustration/victories while you play.

- What did you think about before starting the game, what was your approach to this game?
- Where did you settle and what did you build first?
- How did the terrain and map settings affect your early decisions?
- What were your initial priorities?
- What tech path did you follow and why?
- What Social Policies did you choose?
- What Wonders did you try to get and did you get them?
- Did you get a religion? What religious beliefs did you pick?
 
Turn 120. Went 2 city NC, then settled two more cities.
I recently got Education and am now researching Compass. I still haven't decided whether to go for a peaceful Science VC, or Domination.

I settled on the silver NW. This game, actually all my cities are settled on mining luxes.

ruins: pop (t3), map, 75 gold, 30 culture, 60 faith, camp
Initial BO: monument, worker, granary, GL, shrine, settler
Initial tech: pottery, writing, mining, calendar, sailing, philo (from GL)

t59 pantheon: God of the Open Sky (culture from pastures)
t73 GLH
t103 HG
t120 Oracle

Still don't have a religion, but my GP is due any moment now.

Social Policies: Full tradition, then 1 in Patronage because I wasn't in Medieval yet to go Exploration, then 2 in Exploration (opener and +3 hammers in coastal cities, i.e. all of them)

If I'm going science, then I'll just follow the standard science tech path. If I go domination, then it's Navigation obviously and conquer the world with Frigates. Maybe I'll do both. I've saved the game so I can come back to t120 once I finish.

I have GLH and Exploration, so +2 movement for ships which is helpful on this huge island map.
 

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I noticed game 237 late on the evening it was posted, and I thought I would load the save and maybe play the first few turns. Of course, a few "just one more turn"s later and I had already blitzed out around 70 moves on auto-pilot, which is probably not conducive to a quick finish time. The game is going alright, but I don't think I will be troubling any hall of fame entries with this one.

I started by moving onto the silver, to grab the north banana for the capital. I went monument - worker - shrine, and was lucky to still get first pantheon (religious idols). Later on I would get even more lucky in my faith game by getting two big faith ruins (60 faith each), getting me a nice and early religion (tithe, religious community). I noticed that my starting island only had two reasonable city spots, so I went Pottery - Sailing - Optics. That made for quite a slow start, however, especially since my fourth city was quite late because of barbarians on the west island.

One thing I wanted to try in this game was to demand tribute from city states using triremes. I had read a player's account of an older GoTM prince water map (I believe 161, Germany) that you can tribute using only two triremes. It kind of worked for me. I built two and purchased another, and managed to tribute three city states. I also built another warrior to clear the barb camp on the west island. All that military makes for a comfortable game, but perhaps it costs some tempo when you are going for a quick science victory. Despite all those triremes, I still got my cargo ships going very late - and that is often a deciding factor in how well an island game is going.

On prince, there is always at least the temptation to go for Great Library, and especially for a science-victory game it's good if you can get it without sacrificing too much in the early game. However, it already went on turn 57, by which time I had barely researched writing. I have had this experience before on water maps, that the wonders seem to go earlier than I was expecting from the difficulty level. Perhaps it is because the AI has nothing better to do than to spam wonders: no neighbors to pester, no barb camps to clear, indeed, no cities to settle. Fortunately I did not lose any hammers, but I did have to postpone my NC, which was already late for a science game, because Portugal was building Oracle around turn 90. Ideally in a prince game, you can complete Oracle the turn you enter Renaissance to immediately pick Rationalism. Perhaps in this case, I should simply have ignored Oracle.

In the turn 100 screenshot below, I am finally building my NC, but I'm also building another settler. I had spotted the south island quite late, but it had some decent resources and a luxury, so I thought: why not. My first expand Osaka is currently building Colossus. I would also have liked to get Hanging Gardens in that city, since it has no fresh water of its own, but you can see in the bottom right of the screen that Pocatello just constructed it.
Oda_turn100.png
 
Whew, one more turn indeed. How'd it get to be 8:00? Fun game so far!

Looks like all our cities so far are in almost the exact same spots. Before starting the game I wanted to found as many cities as possible but not sure that's going to happen; the AI are expanding quite fast for an island map. I guess Tiny islands aren't separated by Ocean; everything seems connected by Coast so far. So that means I built 3 triremes and went for Optics early. Genghis got Optics earlier than I was hoping and he came along and took some of "my" ruins before I could get to them.

Settled on the NW Silver; that was a good choice, it gives 4-fish in range of the capital. Second city, Osaka, just south of the Gems on the home island; turned out to have iron on it. Third city on the Gold on the next island to the West.

  • Tech path was: Pottery, AH, Sailing, Writing, Mining, Optics, then straight to Iron Working for Swordsmen to go find some ruins to upgrade into Samurai (and I actually got one!).
  • Build order was: Monument, Worker, Shrine, Trireme, Trireme, GL.
  • Ruins: Culture, Map, yay. 60 faith, Barbs, Pop, Masonry, 60 faith again, upgrade to Samurai, Trapping
  • Wonders: GL, GLH, Colossus. Missed ToA. I still don't have NC but I figure I can buy a Library in my 4th city and get it then; I'm more interested in getting to the prime city locations than getting science at this point.
  • Religion: Pantheon T32, God of the Sea. Got super lucky with faith ruins and got a religion T90 something; took Tithe and Faith from Wonders since I don't have a faith pantheon.
  • SP: Opened Tradition then full Liberty. Got a GS for my Liberty finisher and made an Academy for Kyoto.

Spoiler T100 :
GotM 237 Japan Prince.jpg
 
I started this one up....had 5 cities by around 100 turns I think. Kind of in the same place as those with screen shots posted(wish it was easier to do in Civ 5...have not figured that one out yet).

One thing is, I see a few of you stating settled on luxuries....that is a concept I just have not gotten my head wrapped around, coming from being a very long time Civ 4 player. Was such a no no in Civ 4, I never think to do that. But I do know I've read there are times it's actually a good move. Guess will have to figure that one out.

Anyhow, got God of the Sea for my first belief....so my fishing boats are gonzo with culture to boot. I was settling in places to maximize fishing boats, in addition to other factors.

I do also have my 5th city up on the island with 3 fish and Iron above Kyoto.

I also know I read and was told 3 or 4 city civs can have fastest science wins. But I just can't idly sit by while great city sites go undeveloped. So already eyeing sites to the West and North.

I founded a religion and got Mosques and Cathedrals so that's a major help as well.

Built Great Library, somehow. And Pyramids.

Most definitely planning for peaceful science win....unless someone annoys me.
 
One thing is, I see a few of you stating settled on luxuries....that is a concept I just have not gotten my head wrapped around, coming from being a very long time Civ 4 player. Was such a no no in Civ 4, I never think to do that. But I do know I've read there are times it's actually a good move. Guess will have to figure that one out.
Took me a while too to become fine with settling on luxes in 5. I also came from playing Civ 3 and 4 before.

For me, it's not so much about settling on the lux as settling on a hill. The early +1 hammer in the city center is super valuable.

You also get the lux a couple turns early because you don't have to improve it / don't need a worker (just the tech). But that's a minor bonus, and when you have abundant happiness it doesn't really matter. Except that it gives you a few more points for Golden Age.

So I will usually only settle on luxuries when they're on a hill. If there's another hill without a lux, then it depends on the overall map layout.
 
Took me a while too to become fine with settling on luxes in 5. I also came from playing Civ 3 and 4 before.

For me, it's not so much about settling on the lux as settling on a hill. The early +1 hammer in the city center is super valuable.

You also get the lux a couple turns early because you don't have to improve it / don't need a worker (just the tech). But that's a minor bonus, and when you have abundant happiness it doesn't really matter. Except that it gives you a few more points for Golden Age.

So I will usually only settle on luxuries when they're on a hill. If there's another hill without a lux, then it depends on the overall map layout.

Ok...thanks for the viewpoint....I will have to keep that in mind.
 
Ok...thanks for the viewpoint....I will have to keep that in mind.
Also, I always try to settle on Calendar luxes if they're in a good spot (on a river, mountain, etc.) and also Elephants. It turns a tile you generally don't want to work because it only has one food, into a pretty good tile under your city since you always get at least two food and one production in your city. And it gives you early gold.
 
I'm at turn 133, similar experience to the other posters.
Still have 3 swordsmen swimming around the ocean, hoping to get a ruins with upgrade, but the other AI's starting to embark now and already stole some ruins. I'm researching astronomy, in 12 turns all embarked units can cross ocean so they will become faster.
I have 5 cities up, but I see a lot of natural wonders I can settle, so I'm going to try that for fun. I'm even gonna try to that world congress proposal for culture per natural wonder.
I might also wait for some AIs to build some juicy wonders and then steal them by warfare. I would really like cichen itza and notredame without building them :D

- What Social Policies did you choose?
I have full liberty, tradition opener for border growth, 3 in exploration for happiness (really needed!) and production in coastal cities.

- What Wonders did you try to get and did you get them?
I got: colossus, hagia sophia, oracle, pyramids and stone henge. I lost TOA by 2 turns to china. I got stone henge because I wanted a non-faith pantheon.

- Did you get a religion? What religious beliefs did you pick?
Yes. Production from workboats (god of the sea), tithe, pagoda, religious community and Itinerant preachers.
 
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