Unique Buildings Elimination Thread

[Vopros]

Bazaar 22
Burial Tomb 21
Ceilidh Hall 21
Coffee House 17
Floating Gardens 22
Longhouse 19
Mud Pyramid Mosque 20
Mughal Fort 6
Paper Maker 26
Pyramid 22
Satrap's Court 19
Stele 22
Walls of Babylon 15
Wat 24

Satrap's Court - extra happiness and gold all what you need for a big empire
Walls of Babylon - extra defense does not help much

 

[theis81]

Bazaar 22
Burial Tomb 21
Ceilidh Hall 21
Coffee House 17
Floating Gardens 22
Longhouse 19
Mud Pyramid Mosque 20
Mughal Fort 4
Paper Maker 26
Pyramid 23
Satrap's Court 19
Stele 22
Walls of Babylon 15
Wat 24

Mughal Fort - A waste of time
Pyramid - Science and more faith makes a great start going wide.

 

[GAGA Extrem]

Bazaar 22
Burial Tomb 21
Ceilidh Hall 21
Coffee House 18
Floating Gardens 22
Longhouse 17
Mud Pyramid Mosque 20
Mughal Fort 4
Paper Maker 26
Pyramid 23
Satrap's Court 19
Stele 22
Walls of Babylon 15
Wat 24

Longhouse: A building where I frequently wish I had the originial instead. I don't like that it forces me to work forest tiles, and I don't like the missing +10% prod bonus.
Coffeehouse: It also lacks the prod bonus, but +25% GP generation AND allowed on a hill? Sign me up.

 

[Rooftrellen]

Bazaar 22
Burial Tomb 19 (-2)
Ceilidh Hall 21
Coffee House 18
Floating Gardens 22
Longhouse 17
Mud Pyramid Mosque 20
Mughal Fort 5 (+1)
Paper Maker 26
Pyramid 23
Satrap's Court 19
Stele 22
Walls of Babylon 15
Wat 24

I talked about potential down sides of UB's, and the burial tomb has it too. It's also better for going wide, while Egypt is pretty good at going tall for a little while, even if they start taking over huge areas later, to take advantage of more quickly building those early wonders.

I don't get the hate on the fort. It scales so well with certain choices. You get income from them after flight, get railroad and build NC for crazy castles, and getting honor, while a bit off for most Indian strategies, gives it some happiness too. Who can say no to those kinds of bonuses?

 

[killmeplease]

Bazaar 22
Burial Tomb 19
Ceilidh Hall 21
Coffee House 19 (+1)
Floating Gardens 22
Longhouse 15 (-2)
Mud Pyramid Mosque 20
Mughal Fort 5
Paper Maker 26
Pyramid 23
Satrap's Court 19
Stele 22
Walls of Babylon 15
Wat 24

Coffe house is really great. +5 for both units and buildings instead of +10 for buildings only seems close to fair trade-off. and other two effects are great.

I dont like longhouse because when you start in woods you have to beeline to it and then to engineering to build lumbermills so you get descent tiles to work (otherwise you have to chop some forests down to free space for other improvements). and when you expand further, to non-forested areas, your cities get broken workshops. i think special bonus should be greater for longhouse to compensate its inflexibility. say additional +15 xp for melee or so.

 

[maurcus]

Bazaar 20 (-2) just not a huge fan of it and i dont know why
Burial Tomb 19
Ceilidh Hall 21
Coffee House 19
Floating Gardens 22
Longhouse 15
Mud Pyramid Mosque 20
Mughal Fort 5
Paper Maker 26
Pyramid 24 (+1) free science yes please
Satrap's Court 19
Stele 22
Walls of Babylon 15
Wat 24

 

[duhu]

Bazaar 20
Burial Tomb 19
Ceilidh Hall 21
Coffee House 19
Floating Gardens 22
Longhouse 15
Mud Pyramid Mosque 18
Mughal Fort 5
Paper Maker 26
Pyramid 24
Satrap's Court 20
Stele 22
Walls of Babylon 15
Wat 24

No gold maintenance is nice, but it's just a shrine with some culture. Not terribly useful. Happiness is underrated. By giving +2 happiness on a bank, instead of wasting time building some happiness boosters, you can just build the court, which will also give you gold for units, etc.

 

[Carl5872]

Bazaar 21 (+1)
Burial Tomb 19
Ceilidh Hall 21
Coffee House 19
Floating Gardens 22
Longhouse 15
Mud Pyramid Mosque 18
Mughal Fort 5
Paper Maker 26
Pyramid 24
Satrap's Court 20
Stele 22
Walls of Babylon 13 (-2)
Wat 24

Bazaar gives extra copies of resources to trade. This directly increases the amount of cash you get from trading by having extra wares to hawk at market, but also acts as insurance. Worried about Genghis sitting next to you? Trade him your extra copies for gold up front. Go ahead and spend it right away too. If he invades, he loses out on the resources he paid for, and you can then resell those to another civ for cash up front and buy some units to defend. All this while you keep your original copies of luxury resources for happiness.

The walls of Babylon combined with the bowman make for a good turtling strategy, which could work, but the bowmen are enough to repel attackers. The walls seem a bit of overkill that doesnt provide much benefit. And thats under the best case for the walls. Babylon can also use the bowmen on offense in which case the walls are entirely irrelevant.

 

[Mesix]

As I am taking my afternoon coffee break, it dawned on me that I haven't voted today in the thread I started yesterday. Here are my picks for today:

Bazaar 21
Burial Tomb 20 (+1)
Ceilidh Hall 21
Coffee House 19
Floating Gardens 22
Longhouse 13 (-2)
Mud Pyramid Mosque 18
Mughal Fort 5
Paper Maker 26
Pyramid 24
Satrap's Court 20
Stele 22
Walls of Babylon 13
Wat 24

The Burial Tomb is great because is never overrated. This is especially true when it is attached to one of only 2 producing buildings which you want to build anyway for the religious (and great people purchasing) benefits. It is also +2 for a building which is relatively early and relatively cheap to build. Great for early expansion! Not to mention that there is an achievement for building 1,000 Temples (which Burial Tombs count as)...so build, build, build...

The Longhouse is kind of underwhelming. It is nice, but not nice enough to make me want to play the Iroquois.

 

[Mesix]

My take on the Walls of Babylon and Mughal Fort discussion...

Both are unique in that they replace defensive buildings and not economic buildings. This makes them a bit less attractive. They are not necessarily any less important as a UB because of this though.

Of the 2, I like the Walls of Babylon better because it serves its designed purpose better. If you are playing a building game as Babylon, it is great to have the ability to respond to an unprovoked DOW by the likes of Caesar or Oda by purchasing a Wall in the nearest city which by-the-way has double the hp of a standard wall and deals out more damage to enemy units. Add a couple of Bowmen to the mix and you can hold off an early AI rush even on the highest difficulties.

The Moghal Fort by comparison is a Castle replacement which is not any better than the Castle it replaces at defending your city. The +2 is nice (and I assume could get 4 free Castles with Legalism if it floats you boat), but doesn't really add to its value as a Castle.

That said, I would rather have an economic building than a defensive building for a civ specific unique feature. I would rather have a UB than a UU as well.

 

[Carl5872]

My take on the Walls of Babylon and Mughal Fort discussion...

Both are unique in that they replace defensive buildings and not economic buildings. This makes them a bit less attractive. They are not necessarily any less important as a UB because of this though.

Of the 2, I like the Walls of Babylon better because it serves its designed purpose better. If you are playing a building game as Babylon, it is great to have the ability to respond to an unprovoked DOW by the likes of Caesar or Oda by purchasing a Wall in the nearest city which by-the-way has double the hp of a standard wall and deals out more damage to enemy units. Add a couple of Bowmen to the mix and you can hold off an early AI rush even on the highest difficulties.

The Moghal Fort by comparison is a Castle replacement which is not any better than the Castle it replaces at defending your city. The +2 is nice (and I assume could get 4 free Castles with Legalism if it floats you boat), but doesn't really add to its value as a Castle.

That said, I would rather have an economic building than a defensive building for a civ specific unique feature. I would rather have a UB than a UU as well.

Thanks for the analysis. Thats why Im so direct and overt with my ratings. I want to make sure that if I have a negative opinion of something, I want to check if it has any practical uses. I didnt realize Babylon's walls were that much stronger. I still think its on the weaker side, but now Ill keep it in mind that its there if I need a quick boost to defense.

 

[Gucumatz]

Bazaar 21
Burial Tomb 20
Ceilidh Hall 21
Coffee House 19
Floating Gardens 22
Longhouse 13
Mud Pyramid Mosque 18
Mughal Fort 5
Paper Maker 24 (-2) A vote down on the Paper Maker - simply because I think its vote was relatively too high compared to UBs I consider better
Pyramid 25 (+1) +2 Science and faith on a very cheap building to build. Add in messenger of the gods which you have a very high chance of getting as the Maya and every city gets to be a quick +4 science. Only takes 1 connected city to match Babylon's early academy (+4 science in cap +4 science in your first built city) + 4 faith. Very powerful, very cheap, and quite game changing.
Satrap's Court 20
Stele 22
Walls of Babylon 13
Wat 24

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Bazaar 21
Burial Tomb 20
Ceilidh Hall 21
Coffee House 19
Floating Gardens 22
Longhouse 13
Mud Pyramid Mosque 18
Mughal Fort 3
Paper Maker 24
Pyramid 25
Satrap's Court 20
Stele 23
Walls of Babylon 13
Wat 24

I think some people don't realize how good the Stele is because they're turned off by Ethiopia's other characteristics and haven't tried them yet. To me, an early building is almost automatically better than a late one because it has so much more time to influence the game. YOU COULD BUILD THIS TURN ONE IF YOU REALLY WANTED TO.


Sorry Mughal Fort but you're not as good as these other guys.

 

[Gucumatz]

What happened to that other thread by the way

There was an interesting discussion on what is the better first build, a monument or a scout. I come down on the side of monument most of the time - and stele is amazing of course. It honestly makes a lot of sense to spam cities with Ethiopia simply because of that UB

 

[DavidL]

Bazaar 22
Burial Tomb 20
Ceilidh Hall 21
Coffee House 19
Floating Gardens 22
Longhouse 13
Mud Pyramid Mosque 18
Mughal Fort 3
Paper Maker 24
Pyramid 25
Satrap's Court 20
Stele 23
Walls of Babylon 11
Wat 24

The bazaar is just so nice. It's not really great for the late game, but it gets you tons of gold early on so you can build new cities faster.

Walls of Babylon...not a fan. I guess Babylon would be too nice if they had a nicer early UB!

 

[Dogmouth]

Bazaar 22
Burial Tomb 20
Ceilidh Hall 21
Coffee House 19
Floating Gardens 22
Longhouse 13
Mud Pyramid Mosque 18
Mughal Fort 1 (-2)
Paper Maker 24
Pyramid 25
Satrap's Court 20
Stele 24 (+1)
Walls of Babylon 11
Wat 24

Another vote for the Stele. It's the first building you'll build, and you'll build it in every city (free with Tradition, if you're so inclined). It's cheap, and it guarantees an early pantheon while facilitating an early religion. You can pretty much ignore temples and shrines as Ethiopa.

The Mughal fort doesn't win any awards by being a castle replacement. It's too late to make a huge dent in culture, and you need to build walls first to use it. I could see building Mughal forts in conjunction with Neuschwanstein, but the Neusch is really for wide empires, and India is really bad at wide.

 

[kamikazees]

Bazaar 22
Burial Tomb 20
Ceilidh Hall 19 (-2)
Coffee House 19
Floating Gardens 22
Longhouse 13
Mud Pyramid Mosque 18
Mughal Fort 1
Paper Maker 24
Pyramid 25
Satrap's Court 20
Stele 25 (+1)
Walls of Babylon 11
Wat 24

Ceilidh Hall: I rarely play cultural with the Celts, and when I do, I don't need the extra happiness these things bring. If I am not playing cultural, these are too deep into the cultural buildings to actually build.

Stele: Legalism gives me these for free right away, allowing me to found a religion early and without effort? Sign me up.

 

[kamex]

Ceilidh Hall: I rarely play cultural with the Celts, and when I do, I don't need the extra happiness these things bring. If I am not playing cultural, these are too deep into the cultural buildings to actually build.

Disagree. There aren't that deep in, maybe for puppets. If annexing you can get them easy or can rush buy them. Think of them as an alternative to the Theater which gives culture

 

[kamex]

Bazaar 22
Burial Tomb 21 (+1)
Ceilidh Hall 21
Coffee House 19
Floating Gardens 22
Longhouse 13
Mud Pyramid Mosque 18
Mughal Fort 0 - ELIMINATED!
Paper Maker 24
Pyramid 25
Satrap's Court 20
Stele 24
Walls of Babylon 11
Wat 24

Fort: Its wonder synergy is only useful when going very wide, which India isn't great at!

Burial Tomb: Perfect for ICS, and produces faith, which helps you spam religious building for ICS. Try it. Its powerful...

 

[kamex]

Question! Sorry to triple post.

Does the Coffee House give only +5% as opposed to +15% (like the windmill)