Unit balance: Units that are overpowered or underpowered?

[WhiteEyes]

Ballista and Ghazi have no purpose to live when the other UU of their civ does everything better than them.

 

[Logoncal]

Ghazi, maybe. Ballista, hell no. That thing is vital against cities with walls.

 

[borhap88]

Ballista and Ghazi have no purpose to live when the other UU of their civ does everything better than them.

Ballistas are useful. Check my Roman game guide, if you want https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/rome-hardest-uhv.664738/
"Ballistas are the 2nd UU for a purpose; I would have never had chance to make my conquest in Africa, Egypt, Greece and Anatolia in 150 years without them (bombard city promoted), because I would have waited for my legions to heal for too long."

 

[TsimTsigal]

Never seen much use for Frigates (save for British UHV2, and British UHV2 is the worst UHV to ever UHV). Ship'o'Line/Man'o'War become avaliable with same tech iirc, cost more, but more STR on water matters more than more units. You don't doomstack navies either way.

Basic Spearmen feel borderline useless, most of early Barbarian spawns are Light and not Heavy cavalry (save for India) and AI rarely uses Horsemen. The only time i have used Light Swords was to plug Tibet passages to China, but i think both units shall be used more with Assyria and Hitties in play.

Speaking of Spearmen - has anyone ever used the Sacred Band? Amphibious on Spearman sounds like a joke, especially paired with city strength (no, you won't take Rome with them, in fact, you will hardly take any settlement with them).

Hussars feel bad, 10 STR for Biology unit with very niche role isn't the best deal... however, Cossacks are very nice, they come in play before Rifles who absolutely shred cavalry on defence, and can beat Curiassers.

Albion Legion is busted but i don't think it's possible to unite South America without them.

Honorable mention for Indian Longbowmen UU for actually making me make Longbowmen.

 

[Derdan]

Even on marathon the window for Ships of the Line to be useful is practically non-existent. Just wait for Torpedo Boats.

 

[venusinfurs77]

Never seen much use for Frigates (save for British UHV2, and British UHV2 is the worst UHV to ever UHV). Ship'o'Line/Man'o'War become avaliable with same tech iirc, cost more, but more STR on water matters more than more units. You don't doomstack navies either way.

Basic Spearmen feel borderline useless, most of early Barbarian spawns are Light and not Heavy cavalry (save for India) and AI rarely uses Horsemen. The only time i have used Light Swords was to plug Tibet passages to China, but i think both units shall be used more with Assyria and Hitties in play.

Speaking of Spearmen - has anyone ever used the Sacred Band? Amphibious on Spearman sounds like a joke, especially paired with city strength (no, you won't take Rome with them, in fact, you will hardly take any settlement with them).

Hussars feel bad, 10 STR for Biology unit with very niche role isn't the best deal... however, Cossacks are very nice, they come in play before Rifles who absolutely shred cavalry on defence, and can beat Curiassers.

Albion Legion is busted but i don't think it's possible to unite South America without them.

Honorable mention for Indian Longbowmen UU for actually making me make Longbowmen.

light swordsman are pretty useful as Carthage to attack rome but yeah the Sacred Band is just kinda bad comparatively. annoying coz its such a cool concept of a unit

 

[Rafaelito]

Just recently I managed to beat phoenicia uhv on epic/Paragon by solely abusing the sacred band. They are cheap to hurry using ur UP and with city raider level 2 they can best a defender archer, which is why I managed to conquer Greece and Egypt early on and even Rome with a group of upgraded sacred band.

 

[Bruhmoment]

Very nice. For me, personally, the most overpowered unit is the Keshik. Iirc it's considered a light cavalry unit so pikemen don't get bonuses against it (rip bozo), and has over 3 movements. Paired with the Mongolian UP, it will get you far.
On the underpowered side, it has to be the Ghazi or the Tamil Dharani. The former is overshadowed by the Mobile Guard, and the latter - just doesn't have enough use in itself. It's stronger, yes, but naval warfare isn't very intriguing, and you won't see much outside of naval combat

 

[Nyayr]

Honorable mention for Indian Longbowmen UU for actually making me make Longbowmen.

The Indian longbowman are earlier available tech wise and their forest and jungle defence helps out, don't they also got more forest attack? they also cheaper.

Keshiks are absurdly strong and very hard to tackle, even with a stable China, especially if you let them use roads to your city that appear.

 

[Derdan]

Just recently I managed to beat phoenicia uhv on epic/Paragon by solely abusing the sacred band. They are cheap to hurry using ur UP and with city raider level 2 they can best a defender archer, which is why I managed to conquer Greece and Egypt early on and even Rome with a group of upgraded sacred band.

Yeah I think they're pretty good, actually. They're super cheap. Pro tip: build Kition on Cyprus as your second city (after Carthage, of course) and it gets 6 hammers just by virtue of being on a copper hill. It can pump out a whole army of Sacred Bands in no time.

 

[Nyayr]

They not cheaper than regular spearman, the city strength is nice and maybe makes sense? Amphibious, I not get why they got it. As it is pretty much the Romans who used marines boarding the Carthaginians, slapping a spiked board on the ships they copied of the Carthaginians and capturing them.

 

[TsimTsigal]

They not cheaper than regular spearman, the city strength is nice and maybe makes sense? Amphibious, I not get why they got it. As it is pretty much the Romans who used marines boarding the Carthaginians, slapping a spiked board on the ships they copied of the Carthaginians and capturing them.

Because boarding a ship and landing on hostile territory are different things. Sacred Band reflects Carthage expanding overseas by force (Sicily, Iberia...).

I still don't get how people use them against, say, Rome, a lone fortified Legion in a 20% def city can take like 4 of them before dying. I personally rushed Eles, 4 of them hurried with money can reliably ravage both Rome and Mediolanum. Of course it puts you on tighter timing, iirc in my UHV run Romans managed to get conquerors just before they have collapsed.

 

[Matara]

kamikaze attack because they are cheap.

 

[Hickman888]

I still don't get how people use them against, say, Rome, a lone fortified Legion in a 20% def city can take like 4 of them before dying. I personally rushed Eles, 4 of them hurried with money can reliably ravage both Rome and Mediolanum. Of course it puts you on tighter timing, iirc in my UHV run Romans managed to get conquerors just before they have collapsed.

I usually use the Numidian Calvary against the Roman Legions, and use the Sacred Band against Archers.

 

[Si No Hay Paz]

I am way behind on the game version, but kelebolos make me cry by how absolutely underpowered they are from the moment you get them, especially since they have to be your main unit for awhile and they have to single handedly fend off hoards of impis, an occasional camel archer that will just wreck any infrastructure you have up, and then Fararis WHICH IN THEIR DESCRIPTION SAYS THEY WERE USED BY THE MALI, but no, you can't use them.

Also holkans, they always make the Maya game a big challenge, not just surviving the Europeans but just even dealing with native and barb spawns.

Ballista elephants are also underwhelming as a UU, not really many heavy cavalry units in your area

 

[ThreeBlackSevens]

Very nice. For me, personally, the most overpowered unit is the Keshik. Iirc it's considered a light cavalry unit so pikemen don't get bonuses against it (rip bozo), and has over 3 movements. Paired with the Mongolian UP, it will get you far.
On the underpowered side, it has to be the Ghazi or the Tamil Dharani. The former is overshadowed by the Mobile Guard, and the latter - just doesn't have enough use in itself. It's stronger, yes, but naval warfare isn't very intriguing, and you won't see much outside of naval combat

Overpowered as it may be, I do think the Keshik serves its purpose very well. It makes the AI Mongols a real challenge, and given the abysmal production in the early (most important) part of the Mongol UHV, making it so that the units that you do get are very powerful seems balanced.

 

[Nyayr]

Mayans is tricky as heck, the saddest is having to put some lone person on the edge of Greenland and hope the Vikings show up, cause try getting caravels before anyone in Europe does! The Holkans also are pretty pathetic... they might need some bonus against barbarians, they also a 3 that pretty much cannot even handle dog soldiers.

Keshiks is a must cause with no cities not swapping with units, they start pretty weak, the AI with mongols starts with about 3 times more army then the player though.

 

[RustyBrick]

I always defeat the Mongols by having 5-10 horse archers with open terrain bonuses. Let's say you only get 3 upgrades, that's still 100% open terrain strength (60% by default, 40% from the upgrades, and 10% from the required strength to get open terrain). This is 12 strength vs the Keshiks' 10. The third open terrain one can get you a 25% bonus and a 25% withdrawal chance. If you can attack the stack before it gets to a city it always works. I honestly think horse archers might be the most powerful unit for its period, an upgraded horse archer can easily kill riflemen and cuirassiers. Without anything else to counter the Keshik, spearmen don't work, this is probably the best option IMO, with 4 upgrades you will have 13.5 strength and a 55% chance to withdraw so 90%+ chance to beat a Keshik.

It would be easiest if you're playing marathon like I like to but I don't think 3-4 upgrades for at least 5 units is demanding. Using a great general on a stack could do the trick. This works for most Mediterranean/European Civs if you can stop the Mongols before they reach Anatolia but it requires holding Mesopotamia and fighting them there. This also works for India and China, you just have to engage them in the right spots.

 

[SultanRedSnake]

Please please nobody mention the Bandeirante! We need it! Crap I just did the thing.

 

[Logoncal]

I always defeat the Mongols by having 5-10 horse archers with open terrain bonuses. Let's say you only get 3 upgrades, that's still 100% open terrain strength (60% by default, 40% from the upgrades, and 10% from the required strength to get open terrain). This is 12 strength vs the Keshiks' 10. The third open terrain one can get you a 25% bonus and a 25% withdrawal chance. If you can attack the stack before it gets to a city it always works. I honestly think horse archers might be the most powerful unit for its period, an upgraded horse archer can easily kill riflemen and cuirassiers. Without anything else to counter the Keshik, spearmen don't work, this is probably the best option IMO, with 4 upgrades you will have 13.5 strength and a 55% chance to withdraw so 90%+ chance to beat a Keshik.

It would be easiest if you're playing marathon like I like to but I don't think 3-4 upgrades for at least 5 units is demanding. Using a great general on a stack could do the trick. This works for most Mediterranean/European Civs if you can stop the Mongols before they reach Anatolia but it requires holding Mesopotamia and fighting them there. This also works for India and China, you just have to engage them in the right spots.

I either beat Keshiks with Lancer spam or Firelancers as China, because they collat.

Not everywhere is flat sadly, so lancers need to cut the job