Useless Civics

[henyo10]

does anyone use these civics at all?

1.) Representation - seems useless cause it only gives +3 beakers per specialist and not all cities rely on specialist and considering that later techs are in the thousands i dont see how 3 more beakers would make a difference.

2.) Pacifism - +100% GP would be nice if not everyone is declaring war on you.

3.) Free Religion - it's like being neutral in the game and this will cause one to have not so solid allies and still some enemies

4.) Environmentalism - seems really pointless when other civics can yield more hammer or money

 

[Stoney the I]

I like all 4

1: the three beakers REALLY stack if you run a SE, specially if you build a library.. if i have pyra's i always run it, even with CE, since it also gives happiness in a few cities.

2:in peacetime, it rocks. specially if you run a SE again. throw in a GA , phi leader or a forum, and you are popping techs with GP all the way to future tech.

3:takes the edge of religious wars, and i love the happiness and science bonus it gives late game.

4: i used to love this one, untill i became a corp fan. its a decent civic, but i use free market these days.

 

[Krazy]

1.) Representation - seems useless cause it only gives +3 beakers per specialist and not all cities rely on specialist and considering that later techs are in the thousands i dont see how 3 more beakers would make a difference.

Er yeah, especially if I've built the pyramids - those +3 beakers add up over time, along with the two free boffins the Great Library Wonder give you they rock. And the happiness bonus is huge that early on when access to luxury resources may be limited.

 

[Wacky]

Representation useless

Never tried SE ?

 

[CoZe]

doh, you just selected some of the civics I use most of the time.

1) really, what is your alternative to representation ? are you running hereditary rule till late game ? +3 beakers per specialist is VERY usefull esp when you're running SE, combine it with free specialists from mercantilism + statue of liberty and you got +6 beakers per city.

2) representation + mercantilism + pacifism feed on each other. I don't see why you think running pacifism makes AI attack you. Keep a decent army, give them their tribute when they want it and you'll be fine.

3) personally, I prefer pacifism, but when there are times I want to avoid a huge conflict between two factions, free religion is the only alternative to no religion. Also it can be a huge Happy source if you have about 5 religions in your cities.

4) When your cities hit 30 pop, there's no alternative to environmentalism usually.

 

[PirE]

does anyone use these civics at all?

1.) Representation - seems useless cause it only gives +3 beakers per specialist and not all cities rely on specialist and considering that later techs are in the thousands i dont see how 3 more beakers would make a difference.

2.) Pacifism - +100% GP would be nice if not everyone is declaring war on you.

3.) Free Religion - it's like being neutral in the game and this will cause one to have not so solid allies and still some enemies

4.) Environmentalism - seems really pointless when other civics can yield more hammer or money

I just won a Cultural victory with Gilgamesh running Representation/Pacifism with caste system for the entire game. I rarely run Pacifism, but I started on an Island in this game and I had Zara Yakob, Sal, Shaka with the same religion to protect me. Shaka did attack me but his stack of Galleon suicided on my destroyers (I used them to protect my legendary coastal city)

 

[TM Moot]

REP and PAC are two of my favs...

chop the 'Mids, run REP and you're laughing

 

[J-man]

I never seen anybody calling representation useless before, nor pacifism or free religion. But I agree on environmentalism, though it can be useful under certain circumstances.

 

[christian_a]

does anyone use these civics at all?

1.) Representation - seems useless cause it only gives +3 beakers per specialist and not all cities rely on specialist and considering that later techs are in the thousands i dont see how 3 more beakers would make a difference.

2.) Pacifism - +100% GP would be nice if not everyone is declaring war on you.

3.) Free Religion - it's like being neutral in the game and this will cause one to have not so solid allies and still some enemies

4.) Environmentalism - seems really pointless when other civics can yield more hammer or money

1) Representation? In my early days of Civ4, while playing with a poorly planned economy, I often used this for a while. Either from Pyramids early in the game (this was ok) or once I research the relevant Tech. Once I found the advantages of Financial Trait, I ran exclusively Cottage Economy, and with few specialists, it does not matter a lot, with +3 Science. But, I most often get Happiness from other sources, Hereditary Rule is not civic I use a lot. Hence Representation is the best choice, if only for a while, because even a few Specialists with +3 Science is better than none. I always moved up the ladder, once later Civivs became available.
Recently I've tried Specialist Economy, and have had some good succes with this. And this is where Representation rocks, you'll have an easy time, if you bag the Pyramids, and run Representation from the point where your 3rd city has a Library.

2) Pacifism? In my early Civ days, I didn't like this. However I soon saw the increased number of GP could outweigh running Theocracy for more exp in units. Especially if running Specialist Economy, combined with Philosophical Trait. This steady stream og Great Scientists to settle in your main science city makes or breaks this economy. I only run other civics for a brief time. State Religion if I'm, gunning for Wonder, preferably multiple ones at a time. Or Theorcracy if warmongering.

3) Free Religion? I almost never use this anymore, and then only very, very late in the game, where Monasteries are obsolete, happiness or culture is not a point, where religion does not muck up diplomacy. Few of my games last this long. And - sadly - I don't mean I've won them before then! I mean I've either given up as lost cause, had the game crash or lost interest.

4) Environmentalism? Actually, this would be the only civic I've never, ever used. I think it could be useful, if Health is an issue. If you have few health resources, and have kept your jungle and woods, you could get something out of it. Perhaps coupled with Forest Preserve. But I always chop and use all available terrain. If a few woods stay on, it's because I intend them for Saw Mills.

But I think the system of civics is great. When I first started playing, there were a few Id never touch. later on, as I understood more, I changed my preferences, as I saw how CE thrived. Recently, with SE going, I use completely others.

 

[oranges]

LOL, I usually end up with Representation for the entire game and with the Pyramids to run it from the beginning
Pacifism useless? It's basically the third trait and philosophical at that.
Free religion I postpone for long only if the benefits of those state-religion dependent wonders outweigh its benefits, otherwise it's pretty good.
Environmentalism is the only one I never find much use for, perhaps it would fare better if I were not as intent on getting some nice corporations.

 

[Horizons]

Try using Representation with a large Sid's sushi corporation spread. You'll find you can spend all your money on culture, espionage or gold accumulation and still be able to research modern techs quite quickly!

 

[SPQR300]

From the 4 civics you mentioned, 3 is really useful. If you don't see the point in their usage, then ... hm... I don't want to be rude.
Enviromentalism, that one is debatable, but I agree it's not really useful. I only found it really useful in games which start in a later era.

 

[henyo10]

hmm never thought about the increase of beakers from libraries and etc. hmm ill try it out. but pacifism for me seem to be extremely crippling because to have a decent army may take up to 60 units which is really crippling.

 

[MqsTout]

All the civics have their uses, though I'd wager that Serfdom has the smallest range of times to make good use of it, unless you're spiritual.

The funny thing is, I used to run it before I learned of the power of Slavery and have practiced SE enough to use caste system. Although, in EVERY game lately I've been getting the really strong 'slave revolt' event and might consider using Serfdom just to alleviate that. I'll admit though, I tend only to switch to emancipation if the happiness penalty is crippling, or when/if I need to switch from SE to CE in late game.

Regarding environmentalism's weakness, from another discussion it seemed to be that it's more useful at higher difficulty levels when you get unhealthy earlier.

hmm never thought about the increase of beakers from libraries and etc. hmm ill try it out. but pacifism for me seem to be extremely crippling because to have a decent army may take up to 60 units which is really crippling.

Pacifism's "none" upkeep makes up for some of that (compared to high and medium for organized religion and theocracy, respectively). Also, don't think of it as gold lost, but think of it as "gold converted to great people points".

 

[henyo10]

hmm damn there was a time when i had 70 gpt per turn and i tried using pacifism since no one dared to DoW me and once i switched to PAC it made me go to -30gpt and i had to delete some units because of this.

 

[MrCynical]

1)Representation is one of the most important civics available. If you run a significant number of specialists (as is easy in BtS) you'll get a major science boost. The happiness boost also makes this the civic of choice from the Pyramids. Universal Sufferage is the only serious rival to it in the later stage, and even then only as a temporary switch.

2)Again, specialists. Particularly for non Philosophical civs this translates into a significant boost to the number of great people you get.

3)In the later game you can get by with boosts from non religious sources (trading, resources, war assistance, favourite civics etc.) Also it is sometimes more desirable not to have anyone hating you rather than having one or two close allies.

4)Enviromentalism has its problems if you are running a lot of corporations (though there is a trick with the UN that may balance it out). Health is more valuable in BtS than previously due to the greater unhealthiness from production buildings - the boost may translate into a significant amount of extra food if you have many unhealthy cities. Also the windmill commerce is a nice touch. I do usually prefer Free Market though (or state property if I'm near domination and not running corporations).

Only Enviromentalism I might class as a weak civic out of these. If you want a useless civic, I'd suggest Serfdom.

 

[karadoc]

Like others have said before me, that's essentially my favourite set of civics (I use Pacifism in the early game and Free Religion in the late game).

Representation is probably my favourite of all. I like to get the Statue of Liberty so that every city get a free specialist - with three bonus beakers. With the Statue of Liberty and mercantilism (and rep), every city has 6 free beakers on top of the usual benefits of having the specialists. That really adds up. I find it much more powerful than the hand full of hammers you get from democracy.

Later in the game, if the unhealthiness from factories and such is starting to hurt (which it usually does), I switch to environmentalism. I only use Free Market if I have a good relations with an overseas trading partner, or have lots of Corps.

In my current game I've got lots of cities building factories, and public transport / hospitals etc. I've got some pretty big unhealthiness across the board. I've been counting the number of foods lost to unhealthiness per turn, waiting for when I'd be better off switching from mercantilism to environmentalism. Next turn, I'll stop telling my cities to build healthy building and start telling them to build coal power plants, then a couple of turns later I'll switch to environmentalism. It isn't useless. It's going to save me the need to build lots of healthy building, and it will give me enough extra food to get my specialists back. (I've got +6 food from the Sushi Co. in most of my cities, so they are big.)

 

[Willem]

3.) Free Religion - it's like being neutral in the game and this will cause one to have not so solid allies and still some enemies

You're forgetting the +10 Beakers/city and the extra happiness/culture for having multiple religions. That hardly makes it useless.

 

[PibbZ]

Serfdom has to be the most "useless" civic imo.

Atleast for me. The AI never seem to build Hagia Sophia, so I grab it almost every game. (Most likely because i more or less focus on grabbing theocracy pretty early, preferably with oracle slingshot).

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

hmm damn there was a time when i had 70 gpt per turn and i tried using pacifism since no one dared to DoW me and once i switched to PAC it made me go to -30gpt and i had to delete some units because of this.

If you had that many units, you must have been gearing up for war. Unless you are on the really lower difficulty levels (IE settler), switching to Pacifism is a really bad idea after gearing up for war.

The Pacifism and Environmentalism civics are very strategy-specific. If you are trying to pump out Great People for bulbing techs, settling for running a SE, building wonders, or just getting golden eras, then Pacifism is awesome. The effect is even more useful if you are a philosophical leader. If you have built the +50% GPP wonder (i forget which it is) and have National Epic plus a bunch of specialists, you'll be popping out too many GP to know what to do with them. Environmentalism is good for harder difficulties where you desperately need a late game sky rocket in production. Building factories, power plants, industrial parks, and the like, you're going to need that health bonus.