[UXP] Legends of Revolutions

[phungus420]

Man he does look awesome. I wasn't planning on adding a new Celtish leader, because they already have 2, but that is a top quality leaderhead there, kind of hard to pass up. At this point I don't plan on finalizing a leaderhead list until I see your playtest release. Because I'm adding a new trait, Strategic, I do need to add quite a few new leaders (12 I believe), if I remember right I could only find 8 good ones, so I needed 4 more, so probably your Vercingetorix will be used to fill one of those empty slots. Like I say I'll have to check out your playtest though before I finalize any list, I'm sure you have some other A+ leaderheads up your sleeve. Dido and this guy are up to Ekmek's quality btw, so excellent job.

 

[Vortilex]

So what happened to having Casimir III, Franz I, and other leaderheads/civs in LoR? Were they just not popular enough or were they redundant or something?

 

[joelwest]

my first game of LoR came to an unsatisfactory end because every time I defied a UN resolution all of my cities were hit with 5 unhappiness points ("the world considers you a villain"). after three such hits my civ was at a standstill, even with Cereal Mills to partially compensate for the missing population. I wanted to keep my two XP adding civics, but the nations who would be my possible targets obviously did not want these civics to be available anymore - to me or to anyone else

the UN in real life is a voluntary organization. in BtS it is not. my suggestion for a game switch before the mod starts is to make the UN a voluntary organization. not joining it would involve some penalty. perhaps minus ten relationship points with all who do join it?

until such time (if ever) that a UN game switch is created, which xml file has the setting of 5 unhappiness points for defying a UN resolution? if I knew that I could change it to something more reasonable like one or zero points

yes, I know there is a wikipedia file listing all the xml settings for BtS, but it would take me days to find this setting unless I already knew where it was. perhaps someone else reading this is already familiar with the location of this setting

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regarding LoR gameplay, the legend units are like wonders, addicting but not always worth the extreme cost to obtain them. in my second LoR game I avoided getting legend units until I at least had some units of the same class as the legend. I also thought much more carefully about piling up every single wonder

the Barbary Corsair naval legend unit has cool looking graphics, but its hidden nationality makes it like any other privateer naval unit, so even nations friendly to you will sink it on sight. I tried using it as an exploration ship, but every nation gunned for it. the window of its usefulness is quite small if the game if played at quick speed (like I always do) since frigates come not that long after getting the BC (unless you are really ahead of every other nation)

overall having legend units makes BtS much more interesting, so hopefully Fireaxis will have legend units in future versions of Civ

joelwest

 

[Meatbomb]

So I appreciate the offer, and please don't take the above rant as directed at anyone or anything, I'm not mad at anyone. Just a little overwhelmed and frustrated.

Keep the faith, brother. I honestly wish I had some skills to help this thing along, but I don't. Just be aware that there are tonnes of fans that were very sorry to see zero go away at this crucial time and that have their fingers crossed that you'll somehow manage with other sources for graphics and get a nice stable 1.0 out the door.

Good luck, your big fan Meatbomb!

 

[bestbrian]

@Joelwest: The Barbary Corsair is an incredibly awesome unit on Marathon, especially if you have any kind of tech lead. Build it early and rack up xp sinking coastal navies. Pair it up with a couple of Privateers, and just start circling the globe killing everything at sea as you go. Lots of GG points.

 

[morchuflex]

@Joelwest: The Barbary Corsair is an incredibly awesome unit on Marathon, especially if you have any kind of tech lead. Build it early and rack up xp sinking coastal navies. Pair it up with a couple of Privateers, and just start circling the globe killing everything at sea as you go. Lots of GG points.

The problem with all legend units (and the reason why I never build them, except the BC, which is way too cool to watch) is that there is a lot of randomness in Civ4 battles. Even a legend has a few percent chances of dying in each battle (or barely surviving and being finished by another enemy unit). So, unless you're the reloading type (and reload every time you suffer an "unfair" loss), you'll occasionnally lose them before they have done much to help your cause.
Furthermore, they can't be upgraded. So, I'm not sure about their cost-effectiveness.

 

[Meatbomb]

Furthermore, they can't be upgraded.

Is that a recent change? Every version I have played to date allows them to upgrade.

 

[bestbrian]

Furthermore, they can't be upgraded.

Is that a recent change? Every version I have played to date allows them to upgrade.

Yeah, where'd that come from. They actually upgrade cheap.

 

[morchuflex]

Furthermore, they can't be upgraded.

Is that a recent change? Every version I have played to date allows them to upgrade.

Well, I thought they couldn't, but since I hardly ever build any, I may be wrong. Feel free to correct me.

 

[conception]

I don't ever aim to build the legendary units, but there are times when I see them in my queue and decide to go ahead and do it. Even though they aren't invulnerable, they are more powerful than about anything that's going to oppose it and they are great for spearheading early to mid-game conquests. And just like you would protect a city with a wonder, you do have to make sure that you don't leave your unit vulnerable, but I always do that with normal units because I find it is simply the best way to win wars.

 

[bestbrian]

Legio X is also godawful fun on Marathon. Let's you just swoop around your territory picking off barbs, and minor civs that spawn; those three moves, plus Blitz, really pay for themselves.

 

[Meatbomb]

Me, I find the 300 Spartans to be mission critical for my peaceful / cultural playstyle. That one unit plus some other token light defense can keep your empire safe from multiple warmongers on your frontiers.

 

[bestbrian]

Me, I find the 300 Spartans to be mission critical for my peaceful / cultural playstyle. That one unit plus some other token light defense can keep your empire safe from multiple warmongers on your frontiers.

Tough to pull off on big maps and slow speeds with BarbCiv and Rev mods enabled. In those conditions you are constantly under assualt from minor civs, and your expansion is usually at their expense. I used to not play with much of an early military either, but in this mod, it's kill or be killed, no matter what your playstyle.

 

[conception]

Tough to pull off on big maps and slow speeds with BarbCiv and Rev mods enabled. In those conditions you are constantly under assualt from minor civs, and your expansion is usually at their expense. I used to not play with much of an early military either, but in this mod, it's kill or be killed, no matter what your playstyle.

Unless you play with barbs off.

I plan on playing with them on in the future, but the revolution addition really makes things tough on their own. Its not like I can ignore the military while I build, because I'm just putting myself at risk of having a revolution overthrow me. I'm getting better at dealing with the revolutions, though, and have realized that sometimes it is better to sacrifice some of my civic preferences for stability.

 

[phungus420]

Me, I find the 300 Spartans to be mission critical for my peaceful / cultural playstyle. That one unit plus some other token light defense can keep your empire safe from multiple warmongers on your frontiers.

Tough to pull off on big maps and slow speeds with BarbCiv and Rev mods enabled. In those conditions you are constantly under assualt from minor civs, and your expansion is usually at their expense. I used to not play with much of an early military either, but in this mod, it's kill or be killed, no matter what your playstyle.

In my experience, I have to agree with Meatbomb. At least on Emperor with an Industrius leader if I want to wonder whore early, getting the 300 is a crucial part of the strategy. That unit can generally hold off the succession of assaults from Barbarian civs in the early game (and like he said you also need some token defense along with it). Yeah, going for the 300 might mean you have to skip the Great Wall or the Oracle or something (kind of a bummer if your goal is a Wonder Whore game), but it means that once you build it you don't freak out when you see 3 chariots and a couple spears enter your borders while you only have a couple cities and are in the midst of building the Great Lighthouse or something.

Also the whole barbarian assault in the early game thing is due to custom game options. You have to turn on Barbarian World or Raging Barbarians to make the early game so chaotic. At least if I don't turn these on I don't notice things being much more chaotic then default BtS. Maybe a barbarian city or two spawns a minor invasion, but that's typically 1 invasion of moderate strength in the mid classical where you should have decent defenses to deal with it, you might loose a border city if you're not prepared, but nothing too major. Also you can just turn Barbarian civ off and not have to worry about it at all.

 

[phungus420]

@Vortilex

Casimir III had to go when Charlemagne was put back in to standardize LoR with BtS, as Casimir was just a reskin of Charlemagne. Can't remember why Franz was taken out, he might go back in once I add in enough leaders to justify the Strategic Trait. BTW for any mod modders out there the strategic trait works fine if you want to use it, I just don't have enough leaders to justify it's use yet, so it's just sitting there doing nothing.


@joelwest

Not really sure on the UN thing. That's a default BtS game rule though. Just ask in the main Creation and Customization forums, or do a forum search, I'm sure someone has an answer. As for the Barbary Corsairs, I've gotten alot of feedback about how good they are, so I don't really want to buff them. I'll consider moving them back in the tech tree though.

 

[gavagai]

Out of curiosity, how do the Strategic trait look? And will you change any of the other traits to fit it in? Personally, I would like to see the Charismatic trait nerfed. Especially when you want to have a Legendary unit with a GG it is professional misconduct not to play a charismatic leader. And it should not be.

 

[Ri-Hatz]

how can i play lor with the standard blue marble textures?
right now it is a bit too dark for my taste.

 

[ese-aSH]

Playing in multiplayer with the latest version causes a desync error everytime one of the player attacks a unit (no problem when defending). Is there a way to solve that ?

I remember I saw something in October or November about multiplayer that was to be supported in a future release (I remember you were saying it should work by the end of 2009), do you still plan to make it ? (me & a friend wish we could play that mod in multi ).

BTW great job (I dont think I ever posted here, yet I enjoyed this modpack a lot).

 

[Perfxion]

I am liking this new version. I haven't had a chance to play lately and love that HRE is back in the game. This mod should really be the 3rd EXP pack for CIV 4.