Venetian Arsenal - bug or OP?
- Thread starter Garantio
- Start date
KrikkitTwo
Immortal
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2004
- Messages
- 12,418
I think it is a bug...since it doesn't seem to fit with the Description.
Big J Money
Emperor
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2005
- Messages
- 1,030
I bet this means you can use the gold exploit that Scythia uses with her horse units. Now featuring ships.
AppleDumplingHead
Emperor
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2016
- Messages
- 1,171
Three cities, each producing 2 cruiser/submarine armadas every 12 turns on standard speed is overpowered and not fun after the first time.
Disgustipated
Deity
considering that Navy isn't all that important in this game, I wouldn't call it OP.
Of course I am biased, I like this wonder and I don't want Firaxis to nerf it. And they really shouldn't. Battleships and things aren't that great against modern "walls" (modern cities I mean). It takes a lot of battleships, rocket artillery will still be better.
Of course I am biased, I like this wonder and I don't want Firaxis to nerf it. And they really shouldn't. Battleships and things aren't that great against modern "walls" (modern cities I mean). It takes a lot of battleships, rocket artillery will still be better.
DeutschDachs
Emperor
It's far less useful now that cities are less likely to be settled on the coast unfortunately
I like it the way the Venetian Arsenal works currently, intentionally or not. Even with policies for building ships faster, it still takes a long time to make ships, and fighting over land generally has a higher priority than fighting over sea. Furthermore the Venetian Arsenal must be built along the coast and next to an Industrial Zone on the coastline, which limits that particular IZ from being able to radiate production to other cities.
If the disbanding exploit is the main concern, that should be the thing that gets fixed anyways. Only give gold for deleting Great Persons, and make deleting units give no gold at all or only very very little gold when they're deleted in home territory.
If the disbanding exploit is the main concern, that should be the thing that gets fixed anyways. Only give gold for deleting Great Persons, and make deleting units give no gold at all or only very very little gold when they're deleted in home territory.
Given how weak navy stuff seems to be presently I'm not sure what to make of it yet. The Venetian Arsenal works empire-wide, but it does not double ships bought via gold which is important. Building Missile Cruiser armadas is cool, but unless I'm mistaken there is no way to break apart ships once they form a fleet. I'd rather have multiple attacks rather than a fleet with a single attack.
cranium1
Chieftain
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2003
- Messages
- 15
Honestly, I was a little surprised with the OPness of the Venetian Arsenal myself. I had a lonely start on an island on a continental map and the VA singlehandedly helped me maintain the security of my island empire. I think they should restrict it's effects only to the city constructing it and not the whole empire - that's good enough. As for navies not being important, that's an AI issue and will get fixed with patches I hope.
Edit: Barbarian ships used to raid my coastal cities and fishing boats often so the navy helped a lot with that too. If Firaxis boosts the usefulness of water tiles (which I think they should), navies become even more important. Also, protecting cargo ships.
Edit: Barbarian ships used to raid my coastal cities and fishing boats often so the navy helped a lot with that too. If Firaxis boosts the usefulness of water tiles (which I think they should), navies become even more important. Also, protecting cargo ships.
I wouldn't say a navy is unimportant. I'm just saying the navy stuff is extremely weak. Can't break apart fleets, embarked units can still fight and don't suffer an embarked penalty (or if they do it wasn't noticeable). If you can't build resource dependent units (or their earlier predecessor units) so you get screwed royally.
And since a person is committed heavily to an empire by the time they research coal detection they can get completely screwed by not having any coal. They can't build battleships and ironclads without coal, but because they tech'd up they can no longer build frigates and caravels either!! So they effectively can't build ANYTHING for a navy and are effectively a free target for 2 eras because there wasn't any coal anywhere and the nonexistent, unbuildable navy was supposed to be the defense. If the AI wasn't so incompetent it never would've left me alone with my handful of field cannons and single caravel on emperor, it wasn't until I was already the end of the game I had a navy.
But case in point: what good is a 3-ship Missile Cruiser "armada" unit that can only attack once, when there are literally 30 Spanish Conquistadors sitting in the ocean around my little island? An actual armada would have multiple attacks and would decimate them, but I'd lose a city before a single missile cruiser armada could do squat.
If anything it feels like naval ship groupings need an option between multiple weak attacks or a single large attack. Or at least the ability to "ungroup" them.
And since a person is committed heavily to an empire by the time they research coal detection they can get completely screwed by not having any coal. They can't build battleships and ironclads without coal, but because they tech'd up they can no longer build frigates and caravels either!! So they effectively can't build ANYTHING for a navy and are effectively a free target for 2 eras because there wasn't any coal anywhere and the nonexistent, unbuildable navy was supposed to be the defense. If the AI wasn't so incompetent it never would've left me alone with my handful of field cannons and single caravel on emperor, it wasn't until I was already the end of the game I had a navy.
But case in point: what good is a 3-ship Missile Cruiser "armada" unit that can only attack once, when there are literally 30 Spanish Conquistadors sitting in the ocean around my little island? An actual armada would have multiple attacks and would decimate them, but I'd lose a city before a single missile cruiser armada could do squat.
If anything it feels like naval ship groupings need an option between multiple weak attacks or a single large attack. Or at least the ability to "ungroup" them.
LanguishViking
Warlord
- Joined
- May 10, 2012
- Messages
- 104
This
I'm getting so annoyed at the ai covering every tile with useless crap. Every era needs mediocre units which don't require strategic resources. I'm tired of the Armies (literally, I mean not corps, but armies) of slingers ping-pinging my modern armour.
The really annoying thing with iron as a strategic resource is that you can get it anywhere. LITERALLY. Iron is cheap, plentiful and when you have bellows easy to work. Bronze, however, required a strategic resource, tin, which required complex trading networks. When the bronze age ended the world trading network that stretched from cornwall to korea providing tin to whoever had the slaves and vassals to pay for it collapsed taking the trade in luxury trade goods and exotic items with it. It took almost 500 years for communication to re-establish itself.
WHAT????????
I think in my first 10 game only one had iron lol.
strategy resources are so damn sparse and rare, in most game I have to build or conquer to get it.
In the last game I have 0 iron, 0 niter, 0 uranium, 0 coal, 0 oil with 6 cities (conquered later to get some)
In most game in the starting cities i have 1 max 2 strategic.
Maybe we are all playing different games...
I think in my first 10 game only one had iron lol.
strategy resources are so damn sparse and rare, in most game I have to build or conquer to get it.
In the last game I have 0 iron, 0 niter, 0 uranium, 0 coal, 0 oil with 6 cities (conquered later to get some)
In most game in the starting cities i have 1 max 2 strategic.
Maybe we are all playing different games...
I think the 'Iron everywhere' was a comment on the real world history, not civ.
BTW, I settle a lot of cities just for resources, and the earlier ones are usually easy to grab, if you are willing to sacrifice a settler for the resource .
BTW, I settle a lot of cities just for resources, and the earlier ones are usually easy to grab, if you are willing to sacrifice a settler for the resource .
