Veteranancy and how it will effect gameplay.
- Thread starter Raneman
- Start date
Shurdus
Am I Napoleon?
We have no clue yet how fast promotions are gained. Units may be around longer, but that does not mean units will rapidly gain promotions. Also we have no idea how strong the promotions will be, so we know not what 2 veteran units can do. Since we know nothing, what is there left to be discussed?
need my speed
Rex Omnium Imperarium
So we're going to make assumptions based upon assumptions...
GigaNerd
His Nerdiness
Or we could assume assumptions assumed from our assumed assumptions, assuming we can assume assumptions assumed from our assumed assumptions assumed from our assumed assumptions!
need my speed
Rex Omnium Imperarium
Which can be continued forever. An unending loop. That is, assuming that...
I was waiting for such a reply, you know?
I was waiting for such a reply, you know?
lol.
and yes, we need more info.
I would be fine with humping Sid's leg if it led to us getting more info.
GIVE US MORE INFO!!!! *drool*
better yet, give us the game.
wake me up when september ends, so i don't have to go through the agony of waiting.
and yes, we need more info.
I would be fine with humping Sid's leg if it led to us getting more info.
GIVE US MORE INFO!!!! *drool*
better yet, give us the game.
wake me up when september ends, so i don't have to go through the agony of waiting.
plasmacannon
Emperor
I think what he trying to get at is, based on what we do know.
We know units do not appear to be killed off easily, or at all, mostly just reduced in size.
In Civ 4, units that survived earned experience, whether they were a victorious unit, or a Horse Archer with high withdrawl rate.
So, one could estimate, that since we hear less units will be dieing, ie, more will be surviving, then, those surviving units will more likely to be gaining experience.
Seems rational enough, assuming Civ5 uses experience gained at all, which one would hope so.
Yes, I used the assume word too, but, I haven't heard them excluding units from gaining experience in Civ 5.
So, his, poorly stated point, is a valid one.
We don't know if just 2 are needed to "Trump" an army though, that's pure speculation.
We know units do not appear to be killed off easily, or at all, mostly just reduced in size.
In Civ 4, units that survived earned experience, whether they were a victorious unit, or a Horse Archer with high withdrawl rate.
So, one could estimate, that since we hear less units will be dieing, ie, more will be surviving, then, those surviving units will more likely to be gaining experience.
Seems rational enough, assuming Civ5 uses experience gained at all, which one would hope so.
Yes, I used the assume word too, but, I haven't heard them excluding units from gaining experience in Civ 5.
So, his, poorly stated point, is a valid one.
We don't know if just 2 are needed to "Trump" an army though, that's pure speculation.
If the veterancy thing works as it did in Civ IV in Civ V, I can see it becoming problematic in a sense that it has little or no effect on gameplay.
Problem in Civ 4 was that units became obsolete way to quickly. Even if you level up your swordsman to have like the stregth 5 promotion, it couldn't do jack shoot against a rifleman. Makes sense that way, too. On top of that, your units ended up dying long before they accumulated any significant amount of promotions, and having only 3~4 promotions still left you with a decent chance of getting beaten by the same unit with no promotions. Even if you were lucky enough to keep a unit alive for 5+ promotions, it still got killed just as easily by specific counters.
If Civ 5 has unit upgrades (eg swordsman -> maceman for 40 gold), then I guess the problem would be partially solved. But the unit upgrades can get a bit unrealistic; experience gained as a swordsman might apply when they give you maces, but you'll be starting from scratch when they give you rifles and machine guns - feels a bit unrealistic that the promotions you received earlier would carry over.
Unless Civ 5 has a way to make units effective for longer or give promotions a major boost in stats, I don't think it will have such a huge impact on gameplay.
Problem in Civ 4 was that units became obsolete way to quickly. Even if you level up your swordsman to have like the stregth 5 promotion, it couldn't do jack shoot against a rifleman. Makes sense that way, too. On top of that, your units ended up dying long before they accumulated any significant amount of promotions, and having only 3~4 promotions still left you with a decent chance of getting beaten by the same unit with no promotions. Even if you were lucky enough to keep a unit alive for 5+ promotions, it still got killed just as easily by specific counters.
If Civ 5 has unit upgrades (eg swordsman -> maceman for 40 gold), then I guess the problem would be partially solved. But the unit upgrades can get a bit unrealistic; experience gained as a swordsman might apply when they give you maces, but you'll be starting from scratch when they give you rifles and machine guns - feels a bit unrealistic that the promotions you received earlier would carry over.
Unless Civ 5 has a way to make units effective for longer or give promotions a major boost in stats, I don't think it will have such a huge impact on gameplay.
GigaNerd
His Nerdiness
plasmacannon
Emperor
Depend on the type of map and difficultly level and leader.
Try Boudica of the Celts on a Medium map, Epic or marathon speed.
My friend has a Gallic Warrior with 13 promotions, 3 were from a leader.
Dun gives you Guerilla 1, Barracks 3xp, vassalage +2xp, Theocracy +2xp, Usually 1 Great general by then +2xp, Boudica is Aggressive Charismatic, so, Combat 1, and cheaper upgrades. 9xp= 3 upgrades, 1 more xp for the 4th, you get combat 1 and guerilla 1 to start with. Take Woods 1,2,3 and get that 1 xp for Guerilla2.
That's 6 promotions right there, and easy to work for the rest. Capture workers, as the AI doesn't react when you are 2 spaces away from them and have woods 2.
You have the best defenses for out of city attacks, and gain xp fast to add city 1,2,3 later, add a leader and you'll gain 3 more promotions, one will be leadership for 100% xp earned, and tactics for a higher withdrawl rate, which stacks with guerilla3 when you get that.
Celts are gods of early terrain combat.
If Civ 5 is like this, it will only slow down, because, we have fewer units.
Aussie_Lurker
Deity
I'm actually thinking this-perhaps now that losing units won't always die, perhaps they'll simply fail to gain experience if they lose. That would also act as a disincentive to using "grunts" in a guaranteed loss situation, simply so you can "level up". This is, of course, just another assumption 
.
Aussie.
P.S: also, don't forget, that when you assume you make an ASS out of U & ME
Aussie.
.Aussie.
P.S: also, don't forget, that when you assume you make an ASS out of U & ME
Aussie.
Ahriman
Tyrant
Its equally possible that there is no longer any meaningful thing of having a "winner" and "loser" in a given combat.
Think Battle for Wesnoth style; both units inflict damage, but both can survive. Both get xp. Neither one "wins" or "loses".
Think Battle for Wesnoth style; both units inflict damage, but both can survive. Both get xp. Neither one "wins" or "loses".
sgrig
Comrade
How does it work in Panzer General?
Olleus
Deity
No promotions, but experienced units are just slightly better at everything.
I hope its not like that in Civ5, would be rather dull.
I hope its not like that in Civ5, would be rather dull.
sgrig
Comrade
Yeah that would be a step back compared to Civ4. I would assume that they keep and even expand the promotions feature of Civ4.
Ahriman
Tyrant
I really doubt they'll get rid of promotions, that system just works so well (especially for mods).
