Vive le Quebec Libre?

[Az]

Today I saw browsing the boards a fanatic named QuebecLibre. That gave me the idea of opening that thread and since there are many Canadians in the CFC....

So. What do you think of the Quebec issue?

<IMG SRC="http://members.fortunecity.com/avmedia6/flags1/canada/que.gif" border=0>

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[RedWolf]

LONG LIVE A FREE QUEBEC!


First off... I'm an anglophone but I support their right to an independent nation if they democratically choose this.

I don't want to see my country split up - our diversity is one of the greatest things about Canada.

However I also believe that it's natural for a conquered people to want their independence. We've seen it time and time again thoughout history. When a large group of people are ethnically/religiously different than the majority of the nation they naturally will start to feel disenfranchised. It's easy for us to say "suck it up and get over it" but we are NOT French. Their reasons are valid to THEM and that's what matters the most to me.

They have never felt like they "belonged" in our country. They are here mostly due to the fact that France lost a war to the British. The people however don't share the same language, religion, or ethnicity with the rest of us. They feel "different".

Some people call them traitors. However i don't believe this at all. Quebec voluntarily joined our confederation and I believe that they have the right to voluntarily leave if they so choose. We don't OWN the French people.

Seperation may not be in the best interests (politically or economically) of either Canada OR Quebec but I don't think that this negates their right to self rule.

The problem of course is the large anglophone population that DON'T want to seperate from Canada... It's a difficult situation with no easy answers. However it's certainly not worth fighting a civil war over. Let the French people choose for themselves.

Vive le Quebec Libre!

[This message has been edited by RedWolf (edited July 05, 2001).]

 

[Cunobelin Of Hippo]

Separatism is dying. RIght now, Quebec is about as likely to seperate as the West. The liberals hard-line stance towards Bouchard and his cronies seems to have killed their spirit.

Oh yeah, and I'll give Bernard Landry a red rag...soaked in gasoline, stuffed in his big mouth.

Frankly, the British beat them, and though I sympathize with their plight to remain 'distinct', they lost their right to independence when France abandoned them.

And while we're on a Canadian thread here, a moment of silence for Mr. Richler...

 

[Az]

Why do you say "Separatism is dying"? You can't say that as long as there are people that think like RedWolf?

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[RedWolf]

Originally posted by Az:
Why do you say "Separatism is dying"? You can't say that as long as there are people that think like RedWolf?

What he means by this is that the people of Quebec are slowly turning their backs on the idea of speratism... I think he's probably right about this.

 

[Circee]

What he means by this is that the people of Quebec are slowly turning their backs on the idea of speratism... I think he's probably right about this.

I'm not an expert nor really interested in politic, but I would say that people are not turning their backs to the idea of separatism, even not to separatism itself, but to their (really) stupid prime minister and government.

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-How's the extermination of the human species going, lieutenant?
-It's going as planned, sir!
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[This message has been edited by Circee (edited July 05, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Circee (edited July 05, 2001).]

 

[Az]

Is the current government led by a "separatist"?


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[Circee]

Yes, but he's losing all his credibility

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-How's the extermination of the human species going, lieutenant?
-It's going as planned, sir!
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[xeven_god_of_helsibahr]

How can you say separatism is dying? You must not have looked at the US of A. There are groups in every other state that want to separate. Look at the UK. There are groups in Scotland, England, and Wales that want to separate. Separatism is not dead or dying! It's as strong as ever!

[This message has been edited by xeven_god_of_helsibahr (edited July 05, 2001).]

 

[Circee]

We are talking about QUEBEC separatism...
(where's gone your sign???)

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-How's the extermination of the human species going, lieutenant?
-It's going as planned, sir!
<IMG SRC="http://jeansebaste.multimania.com/fonttwister/circee.jpg" border=0>

 

[RedWolf]

Ok... I think we're confusing Az a little bit.

Az, the Canadian Prime Minister (the leader of our country) is NOT a separitist. He's a federalist and believes in a United Canada.

HOWEVER the Premier (leader of the province)of Quebec IS a seperatist. His political party (the BLOC Quebecois) was democratically elected to lead Quebec while running on the platform of Quebec nationalism.

However not everyone that voted for his party absolutely wants to leave Canada.. it's tricky situation and very complicated. I wish I was more knowledgable on this matter but to be honest it's been going on so long that most Canadians have more or less lost interest.

 

[CornMaster]

Originally posted by Circee:
Yes, but he's losing all his credibility

I assume your talking about the leader of Quebec and not Chretian. Because Chretian is for a United Canada.

My opinion.....If Quebec wants to separate, then let them. But they have never gotten the votes. We have had 2 votes and both times they said no. I think it's pretty clear.

And about separatism dying. I wouldn't say it's dying....but it's on the back-burner and not in the public eyes.

I've seen the document that stated how Quebec wanted to "separate" from Canada, or become a self-governed "Republic" within the Dominion of Canada. It's a joke. Quebec wants ALL the perks and won't pay for ANYTHING!!! They want to use the same money, passports, trade agreements, free (non-restricted) movement within Canada but stop other Canadians from entering Quebec, change the legal system and laws, but not pay taxes to Canada, not pay their share of the debt, and they can add/subtract from this agreement at will. When I read this, I said screw them. (But this agreement was to appease them so that they would stay in Canada and not separate. Luckily they didn't separate or get these crazy demands.)

But I'm for a United Canada!!!

Did you know: Quebec approached the USA and France and asked if they could become a "province" or "state" and they were turned down by both!

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[Circee]

Originally posted by RedWolf:
it's tricky situation and very complicated. To be honest it's been going on so long that most Canadians have more or less lost interest.

And so did a great number of quebecers...
But there's still also unnumberable separatists

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-How's the extermination of the human species going, lieutenant?
-It's going as planned, sir!
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[Az]

Originally posted by Circee:
Yes, but he's losing all his credibility

Well maybe that's the reason separatism is dying for now. Because people are disappointed by their government.

BTW Xeven try to read a topic before posting man! It helps I assure you.

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[Circee]

Originally posted by CornMaster:
I assume your talking about the leader of Quebec and not Chretian

The one that is currently losing is credibility is without any doubt any other than that dumb what's-is-name guy from the canadian alliance

But they have never gotten the votes. We have had 2 votes and both times they said no. I think it's pretty clear.

I would never say the word clear in this debate...(remember the "clear" question debate? lol)

Did you know: Quebec approached the USA and France and asked if they could become a "province" or "state" and they were turned down by both!

That's typically quebecer(and also typically stupid!)


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-How's the extermination of the human species going, lieutenant?
-It's going as planned, sir!
<IMG SRC="http://jeansebaste.multimania.com/fonttwister/circee.jpg" border=0>

 

[CornMaster]

<hr>
Quote by CornMaster:
But they have never gotten the votes. We have had 2 votes and both times they said no. I think it's pretty clear.
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Quote by Circee:
I would never say the word clear in this debate...(remember the "clear" question debate? lol)
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LOL good point.

 

[Cunobelin Of Hippo]

Nice signature, circee. I've never seen it before

quote:
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Did you know: Quebec approached the USA and France and asked if they could become a "province" or "state" and they were turned down by both!

I'm surprised here. The French French and the Quebec French don't exactly see eye to eye, why would they bother asking

 

[Circee]

Nice signature, circee. I've never seen it before
quote:
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Did you know: Quebec approached the USA and France and asked if they could become a "province" or "state" and they were turned down by both!

I'm surprised here. The French French and the Quebec French don't exactly see eye to eye, why would they bother asking

Thanx for the sign. unlucky you: I,ve just changed it<IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/biggrin.gif" border=0>!

France-Quebec is understandable: It's not the quebecers who approached France, but the separatist government of Quebec. You must agree here that there is a great difference.

I would say this about Quebec approaching the USA!<IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/lol.gif" border=0>

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-How's the extermination of the human species going, lieutenant?
-It's going as planned, sir!
<IMG SRC="http://jeansebaste.multimania.com/fonttwister/circee.jpg" border=0>

[This message has been edited by Circee (edited July 06, 2001).]

 

[cichlid221]

Absolument!
My ancestors, the Demers (Have any of you heard of them?), were the ones that originally split Québec into three parts for trading, way back when. My French teacher was from Québec, and most of my extended family still lives in Québec.
If it is not made a separate nation, at least its culture and traditions should be preserved. If the people really want to be free, why is English-speaking Canada still practicing this opression?

 

[thedirk]

I fully support the desire of any ethnic group to maintin their culture and their language. That is what Canadian multiculturalism is all about.
The question is, to what degree should this be done through government versus private effort.
English is not my first language even though my ancestors have lived in what is now Manitoba, Canada for over 130 years. We were able to preserve our language and culture by speaking our language to each other, and establishing certain institutions to maintain cultural elements that were important to us. And this being a tiny minority group in a province full of French and English speaking people. If we could do that, I think the much larger French population can do it too.
Of course there has been some cultural assimilation, but that is inevitable. English speaking Canadians no longer have the same British culture they came here with anymore either.
Dialogue and exchange between cultures will always result in mutual assimilation to a certain degree, but it also produces greater understanding between people.
Thus I think Quebec should stay in Canada, everyone is better off if they stay.



[This message has been edited by thedirk (edited July 10, 2001).]