War on Drugs?

[Bronx Warlord]

A lot of people think Bush is destroying America, but I beg to differ. I think our " War on Drugs " has done far more damage in the past twenty years, and will continue to do so for as long as it lasts. I've thought about this for a long, long time. I think it's a failure, completely... here's why.

1-There is no way in hell we can say the war on drugs is going well when we can't keep drugs out of our prisons! How in gods name are we going to keep them out of our streets then?

Not only that... but there are more drugs in the country now than ever. And there cheeper and more potent!!!!!

1978- A kilo of Cocaine ran you about 23-25K and had a purity of 20%
2004- A kilo of Cocaine runs you 13-15K and has a purity of 80%!!!!!!

Not only have the drugs become cheeper, but better as well!

2-The legal system is in the pits, and it shows. Our prisons are running at 180% capacity... and do you know what 90% of people are in jail for? Drugs... useage or sale, mostly useage. This leads to violent offenders being given early release so we have more room for what? ... F'ing drug addicts! One perfect example is the state of california, from it's inception until 1984 it had built 13 state prisions, since then it has built 17 more state prisons.

In that time it has built one university... just one.

3- economical reasons are there as well. Drugs are a Billion dollar a year industry. It's estimated that 500-700 Billion dollars leave the american economy every year due to drug sales and the funds going to other countries. We spend almost as much money on drugs as we do on oil!

Mexico makes more money from Illegal drugs than it does Oil!

The number one cash crop in the state of California? marijuana, corn is second. Now here is the thing... there is all this hypocritical talk of giving cirtification to nations like Mexico and Columbia due to there cooperation in the WoD... yet the state of california under the same standards would be cut off from federal funding

Here is were it becomes really amazing... the Drug Czar and his operations in the WoD has a budget of 19.2 billion dollars a year, serious f'in cash there no?

You could buy four major airlines and still have a few hundred million to spare, as one of the major airlines was for sale in 2001 for 4.2 billion.

So we have our prisons at 180% capacity, only 10% of them serious criminals.

We have 500-700 Billion a year leaving our economy, untaxed.

We are spending, figureing in the costs of the legal system, police and such, 30+ billion a year on this " war " and were has it gotten us?

Cheeper, better drugs!



What do you all think... and I know, it's not about Bush or Iraq but please, it's ok to reply

 

[samildanach]

I've said it before but the only way to stop the drug trade in the U.K. is to hang every single person who is dealing or has dealt class A drugs. The socially irresponsible behaviour of these people is absolutely monumental in its scope and callousness. They need to be utterly destroyed.

I think the economic impact that drugs have on Britain and America, although significant, is secondary to their impact on community values. But it is still another solid reason for hanging these creatures.

 

[Bronx Warlord]

This is prehaps were you can see the most significant change in society, and culture. American police have become paramilitary troops in this war on drugs, a side effect of this vicious cycle.

" If you call it a war, soon everyone will act like warriors "

There's a reason for the way police act the way they do now... the related violence from drug crime. In the 60's and 70's gangs fought over turf for respect, things like that... they fought with there fists and knives, guns were somewhat rare... then coke and the big H ( Heroin ) hit the scene and all of a sudden these corners that were ones " hood " becames areas of extremely lucrative business. Now these gangs began to sell drugs, and of course if you had more corners you had more profit right?

Well... soon people started to defend there " businesses " with things like fully automatic weapons, all purchased with profits made from the sale of drugs.

All of this led up to the WoD ( war on drugs )

Remember kids... in the words of a cop friend of mine " When your at war, you need a @#$%in enemy " big money was put into narcotics divisions, swat teams became more common throughout the country, even in small towns. It became a damn crusade, storming ghetto streets, racking up bodies and narcotics on both sides.

... And, according to my cop friend " Soon everyone on every @#$%in corner was our enemy. The neighborhood you were supposed to be policeing, well now it's occupied territory. "

Notice the use of military terminology, and how it's become more common in law enforcement?

The point is this... Solidering and Policeing ain't the same thing, and before we made a wrong turn and started up these war games, a cop walked a beat. He got to know the residents of his neighborhood, people talked to him when something happened. Weather it was a rape, robery or shooting... he had people out there helping him, giving him information.

Now... well I think the song " @#$% the police " sums it up well... we got our war on drugs it looks like, and both sides look at the other as the enemy.

Sad part is, it's gotten so bad and we've lost sight of the real issues and crimes that we may not be able to stop this cycle.

 

[Zwelgje]

All the money spent on jailing as many people as possible who have committed some minor drugs related offense would have been better spent giving drug-education to the kids.
Far too many people are being jailed in the US while their role in the whole drug-industry is extremely small.

Example 1:
There was this documentary on TV here once, two parents (both lawyers) were smoking pot every once in a while, their 15 year old daughter told the police and the parents were arrested. They got huge prison penalties and their daughter was taken away from them. Of course it is stupid of them to smoke pot but let's look at the cold figures:
Pro: two persons smoke pot every once in a while and this is now stopped.
Contra: two hard working, tax paying people now are in jail, not paying taxes anymore, probably disqualified from having a decent job for the rest of their lives and in the coming years they will cost money (jail). On top of that their daughter now has to grow up in a less than favourable situation with less chances of making it in our society.

Example 2:
A family had a shop in some rural town and they sold all kinds of stuff, including growth lamps. So this guy buys a lot of them and uses them to grow pot. The folks owning this shop (mom, dad, daughter) are being arrested because they helped the guy growing pot and they get sentenced to 20 years each.

So what was accomplished here really?

I know these are just examples (and of course the worst the documentary makers could find) but it shows quite fine that your war on drugs is not very productive.

 

[Bronx Warlord]

I agree fully, Billions a year and for what? better and cheeper drugs.

 

[Bronx Warlord]

Let's not forget that now we have kids in some of the worst parts of the country armed with things like uzi's and ak's, to protect there corners that make them a @#$%load of money!

Work a job for 300$ a week if your lucky, or sell crack for 2,000$ a night eazily?

If you were from a ghetto and had little education, what would you choose?

 

[nonconformist]

Yeah, persoannly, I feel that in an ideal world, all drugs should be legalised, and the government deals them. Of course, those who buy them with have much more expensive insurance, and medical care etc., but it is a win-win situation:

-no murderous dealters get the money
-people get "safe" drugs (no crap like chalk and sawdust put in there)
-govenment gets money from drug taxation

 

[Winner]

Yeah, persoannly, I feel that in an ideal world, all drugs should be legalised, and the government deals them. Of course, those who buy them with have much more expensive insurance, and medical care etc., but it is a win-win situation:

-no murderous dealters get the money
-people get "safe" drugs (no crap like chalk and sawdust put in there)
-govenment gets money from drug taxation

I agree completely.

 

[~Corsair#01~]

I definitely support legalizing drugs.

My crime rule: If it doesn't hurt anyone against their will, it's not a crime.

Those who take drugs do so with consent and full knowledge of the consequences.

Also, of course the ££££££ is important too.

 

[Bronx Warlord]

Well if it's legalized, do you allow addicts to do things like vote and drive?

 

[Immortal]

We allow alcoholics to vote and drive.

 

[Bronx Warlord]

Good point, I wonder how many people die per year due to them being on the road.

 

[downwithgravity]

I guarantee it's more than deaths caused by potheads. The "War on Drugs" is bogus anyway.

 

[Bronx Warlord]

I agree, but what can we do, as americans to change this?

As is our children will inherit this problem if something is not done.

 

[BasketCase]

From 1980 to 1990:

-- about 350,000 people were killed by tobacco each year.
-- about 200,000 were killed by alcohol each year.

How many were killed by cocaine each year?
5,000 (five thousand). I'm talkin' FOUR FIGURES.

Marijuana didn't even show up on the chart.

Note the pattern: the legal drugs killed a whole lot more taxpayers than the illegal ones did. Therefore it's possible that the drug war worked from 1980 to 1990.

(I don't have stats for other years, but these from 1980-1990 demonstrate the point just fine)

P.S.: Note boldface above. Minds, like windows, work best when open.

 

[Colonel]

This post is either going to be ignored or extremely flamed. So here I go. Legalise EVERY drug, then let the government take control of the drug and sell it to the people. First it would make sure people arent getting stuff laced with other stufff, and secondly it would utterly destroy the Drug Cartels. Which will over all destroy not only killers but it would slow down Terrorism all over since most of the funding for Terrorists comes from Drug money. The last point with this is that if Drugs are legal, less people will be appealed to drugs, especially kids who generally start to do drugs as a form of rebellion and then get addicted. Flame away if you please or ignore

 

[blindside]

What will you do with people that get addicted to the hard drugs? They'll get desperate for more and rob pharmacies or people to get money. Not any different from drug related crimes now days.
On the other hand the government could make some money out of excise taxes and there will be standards and such. Still I won't want anything other than pot to be legalized.

 

[Colonel]

Once again I bring up the point that people will get "hard drugs" anyways and that money will inturn go to Terrorists and Ultra Violent Extremeist Governments.

 

[BasketCase]

This post is either going to be ignored or extremely flamed. So here I go. Legalise EVERY drug, then let the government take control of the drug and sell it to the people. First it would make sure people arent getting stuff laced with other stufff, and secondly it would utterly destroy the Drug Cartels. Which will over all destroy not only killers but it would slow down Terrorism all over since most of the funding for Terrorists comes from Drug money. The last point with this is that if Drugs are legal, less people will be appealed to drugs, especially kids who generally start to do drugs as a form of rebellion and then get addicted. Flame away if you please or ignore

Your post is not going to get ignored, nor is it going to get flamed--well, not by me, anyway.

Pieces I'm going to dissect highlighted in boldface.

#1: Legalizing would not destroy the Big Cartels. Hamburgers are legal, yet the Burger Cartels make gigantic profits.

#2: Legalizing will not slow down terrorism. Several terrorist groups get their funds not from drugs, but from diamonds. In fact, some terrorist groups commit terrorist attacks in order to maintain their control over the diamond trade! Diamonds are legal, AND ARE A CAUSE OF TERRORISM. (Edit: other sources of terrorist funds include legitimate businesses--guess where Osama got his operating budget....)

#3: Alcohol is legal, and yet huge numbers of people are attracted to it.

#4: Some kids do, in fact, take drugs as a form of rebellion. Other kids drink alcohol or smoke cigarettes as a form of rebellion. The legal status of something has nothing to do with whether a kid is attracted to it.

 

[Elrohir]

I'm am totally against the legalization of drugs. Some things are detrimental to society, and should not be allowed. If you care more about getting high than obeying our laws, then move to the Netherlands.

I am, however in favor or prison reforms. I do think it's absolutely ridiculous to send so many drug users to jail while more violent criminals don't do as much time. I'd like to see A) Get convicted of selling the really bad, addictive drugs like Heroin twice, and you get executed. Get convicted of selling lighter drugs like pot or ice three or four times and you get executed. B) The first time you get caught using any drug, you get 10 years probation, and your choice of wearing a sign that says "I'm a drug addict" for one year, or performing 1000 hours of community service.

I think that would slow down the drug trade.