weird pollution creation

[kaskavel]

Well, snapshot says it all. I invade the continent, destroy enemy cities, found two cities and...get pollution twice.

I think the reason is the following weird one. The upper city only exists for 4 rounds and I have used 4 leaders (hundreds of battles when I landed there) in 4 turns to create airport, barracks, factory and offshore platform. Plus an offshore platform in the southern one. Does pollution work that way? The game "imagines" that 240 shields were used for a factory? Is it the same when you rush production?

 

[justanick]

airport, barracks, factory and offshore platform.

All of which increase the risk for pollution to pop up. Research labs do it, too. The existence of such buildings matters, the other things you mentioned donnot.

 

[kaskavel]

Existance of buildings create pollution? I was not aware of that. Factories and offshore platforms are expected to create pollution when the city grows, since they increase the shield outpout, but not with a city of size 1!

 

[justanick]

Existence of buildings create pollution?

Yes, the amount created can be seen in the editor. The german wiki also has a page for it.

Verschmutzung (Civ3) – CivWiki

wiki.civforum.de

Factories and offshore platforms are expected to create pollution when the city grows, since they increase the shield outpout, but not with a city of size 1!

Wrong. Below size 13 size does not matter. Every population point beyond 12 increases the pollution risk by 1. Mass transit reduces pollution risk by population to 1. Recycling center reduces pollution risk from buildings to 1. So fully developed metropolises have a pollution risk of 2, which equals a risk of approximately 2% per turn.

 

[kaskavel]

Yes, but before you build recycling centers, isnt pollution from production dependant from the number of shields?

 

[justanick]

Yes, but before you build recycling centers, isnt pollution from production dependant from the number of shields?

No.

 

[jarred!]

Might you be conflating corruption with pollution? The percentage of corrupt shields out of the raw shield yield is based on a distance-from-capital component and a city-rank component (which is based on the number of settlements closer to the capital than the one selected). Corruption is calculated by the game for each settlement. Since corruption is percentage based, the more shields you produce, more will become corrupt and are shown as red shields in the city screen. Commerce also experiences corruption. Pollution is a separate mechanic based on metro population and what buildings exist.

 

[Lanzelot]

It may be worth to translate that Wiki page into English: sums up everything you need to know very nicely!
(Only thing that may be missing is, what these pollution points actually mean in terms of percentage risk of a tile getting polluted per turn.)

For @kaskavel if you are not fluent enough in German to understand the Wiki page:
Pollution is caused by two factors:

• population
  • each citizen over size 12 is causing one pollution point
• buildings
  • Iron Works: +4
  • Factory: +2
  • Coal Plant: +2
  • Offshore Platform: +2
  • Manufacturing Plant: +2
  • Airport: +1
  • Research Lab: +1

Mass Transit sets population pollution back to 1.
Recycling Center sets building pollution back to 1.

 

[tjs282]

(Only thing that may be missing is, what these pollution points actually mean in terms of percentage risk of a tile getting polluted per turn.)

Based on what @justanick said above, is it not simply "1% probability of BFC-tile-pollution, per pollution-point generated by that city"?

i.e. Airport + Factory + Offshore = 5 pollution-points, i.e. 5% (1/20) probability that at least one BFC tile will get polluted per turn. And a BFC contains 20 tiles, so...

 

[Lanzelot]

Yes, but it would be nice to have that in the Wiki as well... And I'm not completely sure, that is completely correct, because justanick said "approximately".
Also I don't think that the probability is calculated for each tile. I think there is one roll of the dice to determine, whether this city will have pollution this turn, and if yes, then another roll of the dice to determine which of the tiles worked by this city will get affected. (I have never see two tiles of the same city getting polluted in the same turn.)

Also, what will happen, if the pollution points become > 100? A floodplain with wheat, irrigation and rails has 7 food, so the maximum metro size would be (20*7 + 2)/2 = 71. Ok, that's only 59 pollution points, and we can have at most 14 points from buildings. Ok, but I think it is possible to add an unlimited number of workers to a metro during anarchy or revolt (otherwise the GOTM rule that forbids the "Black Hole of Calcutta" exploit wouldn't make much sense), and then it would be possible to bring the population of a metro to way over 112, and would that then imply a 100% chance of getting pollution every turn?

 

[justanick]

Yes, but it would be nice to have that in the Wiki as well... And I'm not completely sure, that is completely correct, because justanick said "approximately".

Yes, this is more gut feeling than confirmed fact.

Also I don't think that the probability is calculated for each tile. I think there is one roll of the dice to determine, whether this city will have pollution this turn, and if yes, then another roll of the dice to determine which of the tiles worked by this city will get affected. (I have never see two tiles of the same city getting polluted in the same turn.)

Indeed. Also if no viable tile can be polluted, then no pollution occurs. Water tiles donnot get polluted and one tile islands do exist.

Also, what will happen, if the pollution points become > 100? A floodplain with wheat, irrigation and rails has 7 food, so the maximum metro size would be (20*7 + 2)/2 = 71. Ok, that's only 59 pollution points, and we can have at most 14 points from buildings. Ok, but I think it is possible to add an unlimited number of workers to a metro during anarchy or revolt (otherwise the GOTM rule that forbids the "Black Hole of Calcutta" exploit wouldn't make much sense), and then it would be possible to bring the population of a metro to way over 112, and would that then imply a 100% chance of getting pollution every turn?

Possibly. Or it is a 1% roll for every point and if a roll is sucessfull, then no further roll of the dice occurs. But that is spekulative. Or it works as chance = pollution points/(pollution points+100). I donnot know that this is not the case and it easily avoids the chance being higher than 100%.