What do Civ5 opposers still like in Civ5?

[Zydor]

Nice question at the OP, and I'm trying real hard not to rofl, its just I find its now too bland and shallow with whats been stripped out. On the positive side to stay with the spirit of the OP ......

Policies - its not a bad idea , and I can see it can be used in many ways to change the whole nature of the game. The latter in itself is no bad thing from a Game Control/Dev's perspective. I have issues with how its implemented re Culture, but its a good addition that should be kept and built on.

Hex's - I am warming to them - head-scratching neutral at first - not because of some stentorian argument over a .6787654 (whatever) advantage in movement blah blah, I just coming to like the additional movement directions available, seems to add to the flow somehow from my perspective.

Thats it ... sorry .... I suppose its because traditionally I am in the "Builder" Camp not warmonger. So whilst I recognise the tactical/warmonger changes that have occurred, the overwhelming nature of the changes put in, either directly or indirectly affect warmongering, so I'm neutral about them, not fussed one way or the other about those.

Hater?? Noooo - I am no "hater" - I just fervently hope they get this game back to the Foundations of the Civ Franchise - they better else I'll send in the wife , and then there'll be trouble

Regards
Zy

 

[Mutineer]

What I like? Change is good.

I like Hex. 1UPT is good , but need some additional work, like permitting more units on roads and in cities, but limiting there combat abilities.

I like idea of tie improvements producing other thinks, like research.
I like numbering resources.

I believe this idea was not taken far enough.

I would put working with production out side cities. (we do build factories, mines, etc.. outside cities in real world.)

So, instead of abstract hammers, I would use resources to produce parts. For example, working forest produce wood. Working iron mine produce iron. cities can convert iron into swords and then train swordsmen.
Really civ use shield, gold and research from beginning of time, we can expand on it, using resources and product chain.

I think combat system is good, just need AI which can handle it. Unfortunately game is not build around AI and you need good AI to make use of 1UPT and combat system.


Idea of civic tree -- could be good with conjunction of revolutions and looking on tree as one civic, which improve as you use it longer. Could have created some interesting dynamic. But I hate fixed unchanging tree like it is now.

I found leaders graphic and responses was well done( pure multimedia), even AI under it absolutely useless.

 

[aeroshock]

I like the idea of strategic resources expiring/having a fixed quantity, borders expanding by 1 plot, buying plots, tile unit limits, quality vs quantity with regards to military units, hex, roads costing gold, railroads improving production rate of cities.

 

[bitula]

You are comparing awful turn times with HORRIBLE turn times. In both cases, the amount of time standard + late-game between-turns takes on machines with ABOVE recommended specs is a joke.

Well to be sincere in Civ4 endgame turns reached one hour waiting time sometimes, whereas in Civ5 it was no more than 1 minute (I played on the same notebook, but maybe Quadro core CPU is better supported for Civ5?), which is still too much, but same problem is with HOMM5, so all my favorite turn based games are slow, this is probably a generic negative trend in game development industry. Anyway, my measurements are not representative, since I played only 40 hours with Civ5 (can't play anymore because of chronic boredom) and like 4000 hours in Civ4.

Reading through the new posts I would like to add some additional features to my list which mostly have been mentioned here:

1) Finite resources. The idea that each unit requires a resource in itself, as a general concept, is good. Similar to a poster, though, I would extend it for all resources . Personally I would extend it to all types of unit as well. And for this reason, and because I like large armies, the quantity of elements in a resource should be much higher on average.
2) Remove sliders. Since I always maxed out science and minimized culture, I'd prefer a system without sliders, but so far the alternatives presented in Civ5 are inferior.
3) Social Policies. The aspect I prefer here, is that policies are hierarchical and need prerequisites to unlock them. It is similar to the tech tree, so it adds an additional tech-like dimension to another type of field of interest. Would be nice if this would be moddable in general, so new tech-like screens could be created for any type of game aspect which can progress (is incremental). For example culture, gold, experience point, age, happiness. Along with finite resources this is probably the most promising aspect of Civ5.
4) Research agreements. Just slightly better than unbrokered techs in FF. I would just eliminate both of them and of course the original brokered version.
5) No anarchy. I personally did not like the anarchy between government changes.
6) Railroads improving production rate of cities. Not a big deal, but not a bad Idea.

 

[Zechnophobe]

Hexes
Combat Paradigm
Finite Resources, at least in theory. (they didn't really do it very well though).

I wish this list were longer, but that is why I'm an opponent.

 

[AriochIV]

I also like most things about the hex terrain and the new combat system. I also like the idea of the quantified resource system, but past the era of Iron and Horses it totally falls apart.

The terrain graphics look nice, but they actually tell you less about the state of the land than in Civ IV (you can't tell by looking whether a tile is being worked or not, and sometime it's hard to tell at a glance whether an improvement is finished or still under construction).

The leader graphics are pretty, but since the text message is all the way at the bottom of the screen, I mostly miss whatever facial animations and expressions they have because I'm reading. They really should put the text up toward the middle of the screen so you can see the leader's face while reading the message.

 

[zonk]

1) Cities defend themselves -- far and away the only thing in V that I will say I love, unqualified, over pre-V versions of Civ

2) Social Policies in the abstract... I still think it was a mistake to call them a replacement for government/civics - but I like the concept of building... let's call it cultural tradition and being able able to spend it like currency. Bring back some form of government -- even if just back to a flat despotism-monarchy-republic-etc system -- and keep SPs as a pink science.

3) Hex map

Things I could love if they did them right

1) Natural wonders - love the concept, like the new "thing" -- but they get pretty pointless and desperately need both more variety and something more to go with them

2) 1Upt -- I'm still pretty convinced that you just can't scale a PG Tactical map onto a Civ Strategic map so I have doubts this will ever work... I'd love to be proven wrong, as a I do prefer a more 'chess'-based system of warfare than I do SoDs, but I'm just not seeing how it's ever going to work.

3) Road maintenance/road costs... I think it's buggered all to hell right now, but I do like the concept of roads "costing" something beyond build time. I just don't think the lazy "Oh, let's just charge upkeep" is the way to go.

Things I will hate until Civ 6 (hopefully) let's me put them in the rearview mirror

1) Lack of any system of government

2) Decreased variety of resources and resource usage

3) Embarkation replacing true naval play

 

[hewhocaves]

When placed between the base of a cup of coffee and my workstation table top, the included DVD eliminates nearly all danger of those unsightly rings on my table! Thank you Sid!

 

[Markstar]

- social policies (but I still want governments)
- map generator (I just HATE the Civ4 maps)
- bombard (I'm glad they went back to the old system)
- natural wonders
- hex tiles (took me a while to warm up to them since my initial thought was that it just limits the strategic choices (from 8 to 6)

 

[Neomega]

native language diplomacy
mountain graphics
limited road system idea
buying tile expansion
city states idea
political minimap
hexes idea (don't like the borders look, they are like influence lines, not borders. Borders are squiggly or line straight, not gentle curves)
limited resources and greater/lesser resource tiles
natural wonders

 

[He-Who-Hunts]

1 - Finite Resources: I hated how in previous civs once you had one patch of oil you were a modern powerhouse.

2 - Hexes: I think it refines gameplay and makes for more realistic looking maps

3 - Bombardment: really like this although I think it should only be applicable to artillery units and ships.

I would mention 1upt, Social policies, city states and roads but they're implemented so poorly that it is not something I still like in civ 5.

 

[RohirrimElf]

I like most of the new changes in civ 5. hexes, 1upt, social policies, religion and spy out of the game, strategic resources limitation, most of the leaders are interesting. (Especcially germany/aztec).

The biggest problem i have with the game is that i can only play on small maps because of long waiting times/crashes and the dumb ai. If this gets fixed with the next expansion i will probably like this game better then civ 4.

 

[Canpolat]

"Stacks of Doom" gone! (best new feature)

Hexes (much better than expected)

Leader"heads" (maybe need some work here and there but overall great)

Worth of Units (now that you cant stack millions of them, you actually "feel" their loss, especially when they were fairly experienced)

Happiness and Gold (at first hated it now i love it. Since its difficult to maintain Happiness and Gold, you dont just build, build, build, stack, stack, stack, build, build, build....you have to actually think now).

City-States (they have their flaws certainly but the idea is nice)

Battleship (I just love Battleships)

Music (in case of Ottomans for example, they took an actual Ottoman Marsh Track and remixed it beatifully. That shows that they actually did some work here. If they were sloppy they would have taken some modern Tarkan crap just because it sounds "oriental")

Naval Battles (they are fun)

Land Battles (they are fun too)

and of course its not Civ3 with crappy 3d graphics!

 

[bitula]

"Stacks of Doom" gone! (best new feature)
.....
and of course its not Civ3 with crappy 3d graphics!

Hmmm, I would just like to remind you that this thread is to discuss what do you STILL like despite you "HATE OR SERIOUSLY DISLIKE CIV5" in Civ5 as compared to CIV4. I don't think that those who say that I love XY feature in Civ 5 or I like almost all changes fall into this category... Not sure - I may be mistaken -, though, just doesn't sound like you do.

 

[Canpolat]

I seriously and utterly hate the AI in Civ5. I didnt played Civ4 either because it was just Civ3 with 3d graphics. I absolutely loved and still love Civ3.

The Thread title doesnt say anything about comparing to CIV4! But I think ppl who liked Civ3 shouldnt be "discriminated" dont you think?

 

[bitula]

I seriously and utterly hate the AI in Civ5. I didnt played Civ4 either because it was just Civ3 with 3d graphics. I absolutely loved and still love Civ3.

The Thread title doesnt say anything about comparing to CIV4! But I think ppl who liked Civ3 shouldnt be "discriminated" dont you think?

Well it is not in the title, but it is in the first post. You see, if you compare it to all versions of civ then we'll end up with too much positives in Civ5, since all versions had some weakness and if we accumulate these as compared to CIv5 it won't be too informative at the end. So let's stick to Civ4, since for most players this version is the most enjoyable one.

 

[HorribleHarald]

Enemy units who behave like a horde of zombies.

 

[HorribleHarald]

"need more brain"

 

[blind biker]

a) Hexes
b) Quantifiable resources (to a certain degree)
c) As you said, units not being killed when losing a fight
d) Some of the music pieces are realy nice
e) that you can call up the Interior Advisor from within a city screen

I think that's it.

Aaaaannd... I agree. That would be my list, too. OTOH, most of the Civ V music is really lame, unless you play France or such.

 

[oChuckles]

I think everyone can agree that the ideas are mostly pretty cool. The implementations fell short.