What factor makes you choose liberty over tradition in a new game? (or vice versa)

[Artifex1]

Terrain? Opponents? Your Civ? difficulty level? Or do you pick one all the time no matter what?

 

[smallfish]

When I want to expand as many cities as possible.

Other than that, Tradition is now the strongest possible choice to start with.

 

[Harv72b]

It really comes down to founding that second city--if I'm not going to be immediately shooting toward an ancient wonder then I'll usually go Tradition & hard build my first settler. But if I know that my capital is going to be tied up building the Great Library or whatever, then Liberty makes more sense as I can use the free settler to found my second city without breaking production. This is on games up through Emperor level; I don't really play higher than that.

 

[Sherlock]

The problem I find with not going liberty to pop that settler ASAP is the AI grabs the most desirable city locations.

I usually get the liberty settler and worker, then go to tradition and finish liberty later.

 

[Harv72b]

The problem I find with not going liberty to pop that settler ASAP is the AI grabs the most desirable city locations.

Up through Emperor, I've had good luck with just posting a unit on the best nearby city site(s) and capturing any AI settler that wanders near. Even Japan tends to offer peace as soon as possible, and hey--free worker!

 

[Sherlock]

Up through Emperor, I've had good luck with just posting a unit on the best nearby city site(s) and capturing any AI settler that wanders near. Even Japan tends to offer peace as soon as possible, and hey--free worker!

I'm not saying you're right. And I'm not saying you're wrong.

But I like the way you think.

 

[Tabarnak]

The problem I find with not going liberty to pop that settler ASAP is the AI grabs the most desirable city locations.

I usually get the liberty settler and worker, then go to tradition and finish liberty later.

Improve lux--->sell to AI--->buy settler before turn 35. Get that spot before him

Whatever the tree you choose.

 

[Ozzy88]

Depends on my start location to be honest, usually Liberty for reasons people have outlined earlier like the free settler and worker.

 

[nefloyd]

I very often tend to be building a settler just so that it finishes around the time I pop the free one, then I found a 2nd a 3rd city at the same time. I will probably build and settle a 4th if luxury hookups allow it. Then I start dipping into honor or tradition or finishing liberty if certain wonders aren't taken.

 

[Mesix]

Since they are not mutually exclusive, I don't choose between them...I take both. Liberty and Tradition are two of the best SP trees in the game. There is really no reason to limit yourself to one or the other.

My typical SP path is to open Tradition first (for the ), then plow through Liberty for all the early game benefits (free worker, settler, great person, bonus ). After the Liberty finisher, I will return to Tradition to finish it off. I find that the bonus and growth from tradition are better left until the classical era to give me time to improve before my cities grow too big.

 

[Lakissov]

Obviously, this depends on whether you plan to have big cities or to have many cities. Tradition gives you the ability to grow the cities faster, while liberty is necessary for the happiness bonus (settler and worker help too, but not so much; plus, the finisher is very useful to grab/enhance a religion, and religion is often quite necessary to provide happiness, when you go for many cities).

Usually, I make the choice based on the civ's strengths and the map type.

 

[PhilBowles]

I take it by default for "wide" civs (e.g. Maya) but am finding it a lot weaker than Tradition. The main factor is happiness - Tradition is perfectly fine for wide empires, and even those need growth, but if you have 10 cities benefitting from the Tradition growth bonus rather than 4 you're going to wind up with severe happiness problems eventually.

 

[Tachii]

I take it by default for "wide" civs (e.g. Maya) but am finding it a lot weaker than Tradition. The main factor is happiness - Tradition is perfectly fine for wide empires, and even those need growth, but if you have 10 cities benefitting from the Tradition growth bonus rather than 4 you're going to wind up with severe happiness problems eventually.

Kind of why I neglect Tradition if I plan to go wide or conquer very early on (below T100). Tradition is set up in such a way, at least to me, that I should not conquer for the majority of my early games since the happiness is usually just enough for those 4 tall cities. Unless I get lucky with tons of luxuries nearby or allied a mercantile CS, I have to remain peaceful for some time until either religion compensates for the problem or I have enough money to ally CS to keep it going.

Liberty however is much more flexible. It allows you to warmonger early on, not as effective as Honor does, but keeps culture relatively in pace.

 

[Light Cleric]

I pick Tradition if I'm not going to warmonger early and intend to go after a medieval/renaissance UU or if I'm just plain playing peacefully(okay, I don't really do that anymore). If I'm planning on warmongering early I'll take Liberty or possibly a Liberty/Honor combination(I'm still screwing around) for a Settler and save the hammers from building an extra worker/extra settler/500g from buying a Settler for more upgrades/units.

Of course once in a while the map decides to be a prick and make a civ forward settle you on turn 3 so then I go full Composite Bow spam and make him go away

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I have serious problems prioritizing my early game so I'm usually wanting a settler and a worker that I can't hardbuild or buy and that makes me go Liberty.

I read the suggestions to sell lux's early on to buy stuff in another thread and actually as long as you don't have a lot of cities early on it works. I used this trick to buy a worker, settler and then fighting units to survive early rushes by the Romans and then the Greeks in turn.

I have tried tradition in my last couple of games and as others have noted, the growth bonus does lead to unhappiness problems, which were further exacerbated until the trade deals that gave away my lux's ended. I'll have to tweak my strategy to avoid that growth bonus till later on.

As I said, I have problems prioritizing my early game. I want every building and every wonder and have every resource hooked up. I also want a ton of cities and a big army to crush everyone on my continent. And I want all that in the first 50 turns.

 

[GhostSalsa]

Aside from the general feel of the game within the first ten turns, the two biggest things for me are probably:

-Faith wonder discovered within ten tiles of capital. That might make me hit liberty for the quicker settler.

-What civ I am playing. Civs with strong ancient units or with happiness bonuses get Liberty. Other civs it depends though I usually go with Liberty overall. Overall smoother and more manageable happiness level as you grow and transition into later policies.

My current game though is William, on Marathon / Immortal, so Tradition was an obvious choice. His UU and the the polder buff don't kick in for a while. In the meantime I can leverage unique luxes and keep my fists close to my head. The East India Company UA is stronger for a small empire.

 

[Peacemongerer]

I go tradition opener -> Liberty for Settler. I often do this bc I don't want to build a settler and have to miss wondermongering and imrpoving the resources around me usually takes too long, as I often get stuff that requires two 2nd tier techs (IE I get spices on Jungle so I need Bronze Working + Calendar while I'm busy researching writing for the GL... takes too long).

I also try to save that first bunch of gold to rushbuy a second or third military unit bc if I don't then, I'll likely forget to do so and be unready for an AI rush. That's saved my backside quite a few times.

 

[ifinnem]

For me its gonna from Vanilla hard not to choose liberty to GnK hard not to choose Tradition

Rushing a key wonder or needing a GP for a religion are 2 reasons to choose Liberty for me. Neither of these are common though

 

[apocalypse105]

When I want to expand as many cities as possible.

Other than that, Tradition is now the strongest possible choice to start with.

Not if you are near 2 AI's and you have to settle you're other cities fast!!!!!! Then go liberty

Or if you want to have a key wonder that the AI allways gets get free engineer


bottom line when to pick liberty ;

-As the liberty opener says for civs who want to expand fast so if you have close neighbours go liberty other wise go tradition..

- If you want to develop you're cities and build military( again if you have close neigbhour) don't want to spend turns to build a wonder you want go liberty for the free engineer

- if you want to have a religion fast pick liberty having more cities building shirnes and temples gives you more faith.. (the production bonus at iberty is verry usefull for this ) I find liberty the best choise to play a religion game because : you don't need to build momuments(+1 culture) so you can start on the shirnes.
You get a free worker and settler so you can start with shrines at the beginning

 

[Esperr]

I never pick liberty anymore, it just doesnt have any actual benefits it feels like. when it boils down to it I look at liberty as +1 happiness from trade routes, a golden age, a free GP and +1 hammer per city. Whereas with tradition4 out of the five policies are actual bonuses that you cant recreate by building.