What is the best civ?

Gael, I would agree with that statement, but I won't ;) (well I do, but I wanted to make a joke outa the whole 'I would agree/argue that'--and I always wanted to say, "well why don;t you then!" err nevermind)
 
ATLANTIS!...it just sounds cool....or Rome :), cosidering how they are the modifiers and spreaders of the basis of western cuture, and no matter hat any says, western culture is in the process of of becoming, and will become the Global culture(after all when when a chinese government building has Greco-Roman cloumns on it, its hard to argue otherwise......
 
In terms of influence and greatness it would be between Britain and China. The USA doesnt come close without Britain it would be just like Mexico or Brazil.

Britain created the largest empire ever. It started the industrial revolution which is one of the greatest influences on society today. Its langauge is the most dominant in the history of man. Its culture is created countries like the US, Canada and Australia. None of the other European countries established regoins with such ecomic, industrial power and such a high standard of living. Its version of commercial spread throughout the world. One of the first to bring in mass eduaction. Things like the parliment, liberalism and liberty started in Britain and without mass violence.

While Britain is very much influenced by Greece and Rome it developed itself long after these empires calapsed. Britain didnt have a large population base like other countries or a great natural advantage and it was stuck on an island. while China had 10 times or more people to work with Britain forged the greatest empire. Unlike the Mognols though they established it with commercialism, industrial and science.

For longetivity and size of its population China is at the top of the list, it advanaces in science and its power at many times in history make it the greatest. But it was conquered several times unlike the Brits who once they formed their civilization were never conquered. China has significent advantages over other civilizations in natural resources and a massive population. If Britain was twice as big in population and land it would have been the greatest.

1. China
2. Britain
3. Greece
4. Rome
 
While everybody has included China in their top five, I wonder how they could have missed India in there. Despite the fact that we have been invaded by so many different conquerors of different cultures, we have managed to assimilate almost everyone of them into our culture.:borg:;)

In the architecture and sculpture found in what is now Afghanistan, it is evident that Indian and Greek influences have long worked in Cohesion to produce masterpieces like the Bamiyan Buddha among others.

In fact, it was the Indian king, Ashoka who "exported" Buddhism to SE ASIA and the Far East and encouraged non-violence and learning within his own realm. Besides, this India was always at the forefront in Science and technology, esp in Maths, Astronomy, Metallurgy and Medicine.

The '0' the very basis for modern mathematics was invented in India, the Pythagoras theorem was postulated here much before Pythagoras by an Indian mathematician by the name of Boudhayana. In fact, several concepts of trigonometry and geometry were mastered long before the Greeks as the references to them in Indian scripture indicate.

In Delhi, there exists a pillar of iron which has not rusted for over 2000 years despite being exposed to the elements. In fact, King Richard the III was defeated by Saladin, who was armed with swords made from steel which the Indians originally cast.

In astronomy, Indian astronomer, Aryabhatta postulated that the Earth was round and went around the Sun once in 365 days, long before any Western Astronomer dared to think of such a thing.

I can go on and on, but I will not have come to the crux of my point. While China waas relatively fre from attacks from the Western civs, uptil about the 18th Century, India had to deal with the Greeks, the Persians, the Arabs, the Afghans, not to mention the French, English, Portuguese and the Dutch who followed!!!

Yet, our culture has remained steady and has been able to incorporate all the different ideas and views held by various other cultures who came as conquerors but eventually settled down and were assimilated into the culture.

Of course, we have been through our own problems, no doubt, the rigidity of the Bramhins, the petty quibbling of the Rajputs and the greed of the later Princely states have affected our culture and civilization no doubt, yet, we are now emerging from the ashes of colonialism and more recently, protectionistic economic policies, to take our helm as the forebearers of one of the world's most ancient civilizations.

I don't say I Indian is the best or the greatest civilization, but it is one among those whose stamp on history will be seen for years to come.

(Sorry for the rather lengthy post, but I joined this thread a little late:))
 
While everybody has included China in their top five, I wonder how they could have missed India in there. Despite the fact that we have been invaded by so many different conquerors of different cultures, we have managed to assimilate almost everyone of them into our culture.:borg:;)

In the architecture and sculpture found in what is now Afghanistan, it is evident that Indian and Greek influences have long worked in Cohesion to produce masterpieces like the Bamiyan Buddha among others.

In fact, it was the Indian king, Ashoka who "exported" Buddhism to SE ASIA and the Far East and encouraged non-violence and learning within his own realm. Besides, this India was always at the forefront in Science and technology, esp in Maths, Astronomy, Metallurgy and Medicine.

The '0' the very basis for modern mathematics was invented in India, the Pythagoras theorem was postulated here much before Pythagoras by an Indian mathematician by the name of Boudhayana. In fact, several concepts of trigonometry and geometry were mastered long before the Greeks as the references to them in Indian scripture indicate.

In Delhi, there exists a pillar of iron which has not rusted for over 2000 years despite being exposed to the elements. In fact, King Richard the III was defeated by Saladin, who was armed with swords made from steel which the Indians originally cast.

In astronomy, Indian astronomer, Aryabhatta postulated that the Earth was round and went around the Sun once in 365 days, long before any Western Astronomer dared to think of such a thing.

I can go on and on, but I will not have come to the crux of my point. While China was relatively free from attacks from the Western civs, until about the 18th Century, India had to deal with the Greeks, the Persians, the Arabs, the Afghans, not to mention the French, English, Portuguese and the Dutch who followed!!!

Yet, our culture has remained steady and has been able to incorporate all the different ideas and views held by various other cultures who came as conquerors but eventually settled down and were assimilated into the culture.

Of course, we have been through our own problems, no doubt, the rigidity of the Bramhins, the petty quibbling of the Rajputs and the greed of the later Princely states have affected our culture and civilization no doubt, yet, we are now emerging from the ashes of colonialism and more recently, protectionistic economic policies, to take our place as the forebearers of one of the world's most ancient civilizations.

I don't say Indian is the best or the greatest civilization, but it is one among those whose stamp on history will be seen for years to come.

(Sorry for the rather lengthy post, but I joined this thread a little late:))
 
Well, don't forget the Mongols and Mohgols!

The only culture that successfully didn't become fully Indian were the Muslims, whose religion is is some ways opposite of Hinduism.

To add on about india, the Arabic numerals we are so fond of originated in India. Not surprising when noticing they have been used worldwide before Great Britain took everything over.

India often put forth wise ideas and then had Arab scholars expand on them.

The ancient civilization in along the Indus (?) is about the least known of the greatest ancient civilizations of the time, and possibly the most advanced.

allhailIndia, the only thing I might disagree with. You say an Indian came up with the 365 days per year thing before anyone else, well, I don't know the dates but the Egyptians first came up with a 360, and then 365 day a year calander before almost anyone else.
 
Yes, but they did base it on the fact that the Earth revolves around the Sun and not vice versa!

Also, the Indus valley civilization can be considered as the first truly Indian civilization, because it too has contributed a LOT to the growth of Indian culture, esp, religion and architecture.

The cities of Mohenjo Daro and Harappa, besides others, were among the world's best planned cities till their destruction or abandonment(?). Also, they had had contacts with the Mesopotamians and Egyptians, as is indicated by Indus Valley seals found in theses regions.

The Moghuls or Mughals were Afghan invaders who destroyed the corrupt Delhi Sultanate and began one of India's most glorious periods of history. They are not the same as Mongols and should not be confused with the latter, who only came to India to loot and pillage and sack the city of Delhi.
 
Well, the Mughals were indeed Mongols, as Mughal was Persian for Mongol, however they probably took their time getting to India as when they got there they were pretty serios Muslims, no?

It's knid of convient that I'm studying India right now ;)
 
Actually the mughals were a cross of the Afghans and the Mongols to be precise, but their culture, language and way of life was greatly different from the Mongols.

Except for Aurangzeb, all the Mughal rulers were extremely open-minded and secular in their outlook and did not persecute Hindus or Christians for that matter!!

Several of them married Hindu princesses and the Rajputs were willing to fight alongside them for a long time, till of course, Aurangzeb threw the spanner in the works. But more about him later!
 
Originally posted by Hygro
Well, the Mughals were indeed Mongols, as Mughal was Persian for Mongol, however they probably took their time getting to India as when they got there they were pretty serios Muslims, no?

It's knid of convient that I'm studying India right now ;)
The Mughals were no Mongols; they appeared quite awhile after the pure Mongol ruling houses in the region collapsed or converted to Islam. They're more like Muslims fr Afghanistan and Central Asia. They probably had some Mongol stock, but they're not the same as the Mongols of GK's time. ;)

For one thing, their armies depended much on cannons, as I recalled...
 
Originally posted by allhailIndia
While everybody has included China in their top five, I wonder how they could have missed India in there. Despite the fact that we have been invaded by so many different conquerors of different cultures, we have managed to assimilate almost everyone of them into our culture.
India is no China; in terms of unity of people, imperial power projection, cultural unity, singleness of national purpose etc. China may be the younger nation, but it had a longer history as a united imperial power with some force projection into the surrounding areas.

Had the British not come, there'd be no united India today. Even the Mughals never did conquer the Tamil kingdoms in S India, no? Except for the Mauryans, none others managed to unite all of India (unless I'm mistaken for the Guptas and Harsha).
 
India has been united with Hinduism and, more significantly, its caste system, which was very widespread. Though my text I am learning from is from 1996, it states that the caste is still alive today (though not quite to the strength it used to be). The people were united, even if the lands were not.
 
Originally posted by Hygro
India has been united with Hinduism and, more significantly, its caste system, which was very widespread. Though my text I am learning from is from 1996, it states that the caste is still alive today (though not quite to the strength it used to be). The people were united, even if the lands were not.
India is a culturally very diverse land, despite the Hindu majority. Whole lots of different peoples like Rajputs, Sikhs, Tamils, Bengalis, the tribal peoples etc etc. Lots of religions and local beliefs, thru millenia of local separate development. Lots of different ethnic peoples too.

The caste system is only one facet of it, and only involves Hindus.
 
Originally posted by XIII
India is a culturally very diverse land, despite the Hindu majority. Whole lots of different peoples like Rajputs, Sikhs, Tamils, Bengalis, the tribal peoples etc etc. Lots of religions and local beliefs, thru millenia of local separate development. Lots of different ethnic peoples too.

The caste system is only one facet of it, and only involves Hindus.

Let me clear up a few misconceptions about Hinduism and India.

The various "different" people you are referring to are mainly linguistic divisions, i.e, they were still Hindus, had pretty much the same way of life and thinking, but were ruled by different rulers. In fact, our culture, like China's has remained pretty much the same from what it was 4000 years ago, but has been able to incorporate ideas and beliefs of other cultures as well.

In fact, the British took over during a transition period, when the Mughals were very weak and the Marathas, who would have no doubt gone on to unify India had they had the time and opportunity, (they managed to unify southern and central India), were on the ascendancy but defeated by the lack if unity aming the princely states.

Like China, India has also had its glory days and bad days, but unlike say, the Romans, Greeks or Egyptians, we have not completely lost our culture of old.

BTW the caste system is existent only in the very backward areas or unless the govt. job reservation policy for the oppressed castes is seen as Casteism.
 
well, like reacism in america, sure, you say you aren't judging on race, but sometimes people really are, even with there is to be no discrimination based on race.

So I'm sure their are people prejeduced against caste, even if it's not sponsored by the government, even in not SO backwater areas.
 
You seem to have mistaken, the Govt. reservation is FOR the people who were from the downtrodden sections of society.
 
non, I don't mean the gov't, I meant how people in many places wouls till retain such prejeduces.

I understand how the gov't wants to help those who have been trodden on since millenia.
 
I guess it wld take at least a couple of generations more before caste discriminations are removed from society.
 
Originally posted by allhailIndia
The various "different" people you are referring to are mainly linguistic divisions, i.e, they were still Hindus, had pretty much the same way of life and thinking, but were ruled by different rulers.
The N Indians are markedly different fr the Tamils at least, I think. And the tribal peoples even more still - they practised animism IIRC.

In fact, our culture, like China's has remained pretty much the same from what it was 4000 years ago, but has been able to incorporate ideas and beliefs of other cultures as well.
The Chinese have something better and more concrete than mere culture - a political ideology which united the intellectual elite of the empire. And a belief in education as means for elevation in social status (the scholar exams were open to all).

In fact, the British took over during a transition period, when the Mughals were very weak and the Marathas, who would have no doubt gone on to unify India had they had the time and opportunity, (they managed to unify southern and central India), were on the ascendancy but defeated by the lack if unity aming the princely states.
We can conjecture all we want - Alexander could have marched to China had he the time and opporunity. :p But the fact remains that the reason the Brits could move in was 'cause the Indians had never been united enough to confront them effectively.

I doubt the Hindu subjects of the Muslim Mughal conquerors were so eager to defend their foreign rulers.
 
Originally posted by XIII
The N Indians are markedly different fr the Tamils at least, I think. And the tribal peoples even more still - they practised animism IIRC.

I did'nt say that we were as homogenous as the Chinese in our cultural make-up, but the difference is that the North Indians were Indo-Aryans, akin to the Greeks and Romans, while the South Indians were an indigenous people. The religion of the majority of the Hindus are the same and the "animism" of the tribals in most parts is actually a "spin-off" of Hinduism.

Originally posted by XIII
The Chinese have something better and more concrete than mere culture - a political ideology which united the intellectual elite of the empire. And a belief in education as means for elevation in social status (the scholar exams were open to all).
Isn't a political ideology a thought which has evolved from your culture??:confused:

Originally posted by XIII
We can conjecture all we want - Alexander could have marched to China had he the time and opporunity. :p But the fact remains that the reason the Brits could move in was 'cause the Indians had never been united enough to confront them effectively.

I doubt the Hindu subjects of the Muslim Mughal conquerors were so eager to defend their foreign rulers.

That is where you are wrong. The Hindu rulers of Central and Western India joined hands with the remnants of the Mughal Empire to try and uproot the British during the Sepoy mutiny/First War of Independence.

The Marathas had beaten the English and French in the Deccan Wars of the 1700's and were capable of uniting India until the made the mistake of trying to expand too fast. In fact they had succeeded in bringing most of the South and Centre under their control and were levying taxes and trubites from the rulers in this region.

BTW, it was the British who split Hindu-Muslim unity during their rule by doing everything possible to separate us into different communities and areas, (i.e, ghettoization) .
 
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