What is the best UB?

[Peasley]

This is pretty self-explanatory, but I thought that it would be interesting to check the prevailing opinions on this.

I expect the Rathaus to be a popular choice, though it's attacked to such a terrible civ that I find it hard to argue for.

In my mind, the Terrace is the runaway winner. You need granaries anyway, and the hammers that they save you on monuments cannot be understated. They are absolutely perfect for getting cities up and running.

What do you think?

 

[Manco Capac]

No, the sacrifial altar is da winner. And for a fair comparison of UB, it should be done albeit the civ that hosts it.

 

[maurcus]

the forum. a must building becomes an even better must building.

 

[fed1943]

Yes, terrasse saves hammers and more important time.

 

[oranje willem]

the forum. a must building becomes an even better must building.

The market is one of the worst buildings to make in 75% of your cities. Especially a GP farm (where a forum would 'excel') doesn't have the hammers to make it worthwhile.

 

[lymond]

the forum. a must building becomes an even better must building.

Forum is definitely among the lower tier of UBs and markets certainly are far from "must" buildings.

Especially a GP farm (where a forum would 'excel') doesn't have the hammers to make it worthwhile.

While you are basically correct about the value of markets, they are very easy to whip out in GP farms, especially with a forge, and merchants/GMs gain in value as the game progresses.

 

[gunslinger6792]

Forum is definitely among the lower tier of UBs and markets certainly are far from "must" buildings.



While you are basically correct about the value of markets, they are very easy to whip out in GP farms, especially with a forge, and merchants/GMs gain in value as the game progresses.

I must be doing something wrong then because I'm always building markets to get my GDP up. Mints are kind of nice though as are cothons.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

No, the sacrifial altar is da winner. And for a fair comparison of UB, it should be done albeit the civ that hosts it.

+1. While Ikhanda, Terrace, Zig, and Rathaus are all very nice, no other building in the game touches the Sac Altar. It's probably the largest production-booster UB (adjusting for era available) and it also comes at a discount. Not only is it powerful early, but it stays so throughout the game. While most civs get from chain whipping, it's pretty difficult to even get to material amounts of it while Aztec with this UB.

Even on "water" maps it outproduces the Dike, becaue it gives the so early, to all cities without exception, and is easier to build in the first place. It's one of the only playstyle-altering UBs out there.

You win points for voting for the Dun BTW. Instead of the grammatically incorrect "you have built a walls", you actually build a "Dun". You are therefore slightly more educated than most other civs, though bear in mind that Mali can build a skirmisher and you're still stuck building "a Archer".

I must be doing something wrong then because I'm always building markets to get my GDP up. Mints are kind of nice though as are cothons.

25% when running an "average" slider ~50% isn't impressive at all unless you're rocking a 100 city or something, and that's assuming you can't broker for gold. Most of the time, those are much spent elsewhere, or even on wealth (it would take an eternity for a 10-20 city to catch just straight building wealth).

That means that generally speaking, outside of a bur cap or HUGE shrine/crop HQ type city, markets are generally a sub-par choice as a structure and a bad build in general. When they can become worth it, however, is when you have 3-4 out of fur, ivory, silk, and whale. At that point, the / ratio is pretty favorable and unlike HR garrison it doesn't charge maintenance...and the pittance of gold it gives is just a welcome bonus over the 4 .

 

[gunslinger6792]

25% when running an "average" slider ~50% isn't impressive at all unless you're rocking a 100 city or something, and that's assuming you can't broker for gold. Most of the time, those are much spent elsewhere, or even on wealth (it would take an eternity for a 10-20 city to catch just straight building wealth).

That means that generally speaking, outside of a bur cap or HUGE shrine/crop HQ type city, markets are generally a sub-par choice as a structure and a bad build in general. When they can become worth it, however, is when you have 3-4 out of fur, ivory, silk, and whale. At that point, the / ratio is pretty favorable and unlike HR garrison it doesn't charge maintenance...and the pittance of gold it gives is just a welcome bonus over the 4 .[/QUOTE]

Thanks for information. What you said makes sense and I'm going to play around with it with the next game I play. And now I've gotten off topic.

 

[Gwynnja]

Some of these are just laughable. The dun? The cothon? The mall? The research institute? Kidding me? Also, a forge isn't a unique building. It loses it uniqueness when all the civs can build it. Where's the gerrrr? Great synergy with the Mongol Keshiks. The Spanish citadel is a fantastic unique building. The Persian apothecary is another highly underrated UB, but instead we've got things like the obelisk, trading post, madrassa, and pavillion. Come on OP, how about a little effort next time.

 

[Peasley]

Some of these are just laughable. The dun? The cothon? The mall? The research institute? Kidding me? Also, a forge isn't a unique building. It loses it uniqueness when all the civs can build it. Where's the gerrrr? Come on OP, how about a little effort next time.

Forge should be Mint.

Complaining does you no good.

 

[Gwynnja]

Forge should be Mint.

Complaining does you no good.

So no one should express dissatisfaction with your half-assed poll? Whatever. I will suck it up, roll my eyes, and move on.

 

[Fippy]

Cothon is actually very good

About markets, they mostly shine in Isolation or if AIs just won't trade you happy stuff, if you have some of these 4 res.
It can be better whipping them in then, while expensive it's still better than not growing anymore in food rich cities.

 

[Gwynnja]

Cothon is actually very good

It's an improvement, but "very good" is a stretch.

 

[Robert FIN]

I don't know every single effect of these buildings but Rathaus rocks pretty much !

 

[Timsup2nothin]

In my mind, the Terrace is the runaway winner. You need granaries anyway, and the hammers that they save you on monuments cannot be understated. They are absolutely perfect for getting cities up and running.

Something about this line of reasoning struck me...does the fact that you are certain to build it anyway really enter into how good a UB it is? It is nice to have an extra benefit attached to a granary, but there are UBs that turn a building you would never build into something good, and wouldn't that be a bigger point?

 

[rah]

None are my favorites but there are a handful that I prefer. Depending on the map or situation some work better. Even the Hamman can be quite useful sometimes. But yes the terrace, Ikhamda, rathaus, and sacrificial alter seem to always be better. The mint can be nice since most of my cities end up with them.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Some of these are just laughable. The dun? The cothon? The mall? The research institute? Kidding me? Also, a forge isn't a unique building. It loses it uniqueness when all the civs can build it. Where's the gerrrr? Great synergy with the Mongol Keshiks. The Spanish citadel is a fantastic unique building. The Persian apothecary is another highly underrated UB, but instead we've got things like the obelisk, trading post, madrassa, and pavillion. Come on OP, how about a little effort next time.

If he didn't include Dun, Tachy couldn't troll by picking it .

Obelisk, while generally crummy, does in fact open up the easiest VC in the game via a guaranteed prophet bulb of theology, so you actually *COULD* make an argument for it. You have an almost-guaranteed "I win" button. Trading post is like the Dike; a valid choice on maps that FORCE you to only fight if transporting units via navy (in sailing era warfare it's an immense advantage) but is otherwise lackluster. Pavillion is on no way a top UB but at least it's mid-tier unlike, say, the forum ^_^.

It's an improvement, but "very good" is a stretch.

It's like the market, only a lot better. If you get 3 from it in addition to the trade route it's a no brainer after things like granary/lighthouse/etc. It's pretty good even if you only get 2. If growing fast under monarchy or rep + drama you can run afoul of the cap quickly so buildings are useful; one that adds more so.

Something about this line of reasoning struck me...does the fact that you are certain to build it anyway really enter into how good a UB it is?

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

If it didn't, you could make a legit case for the mall (gobs of potential , good boost) and research institute (herp it's a great library!).

What we're looking for is indeed how much one would expect to get out of a UB, on average, on a game-to-game basis. Terrace is amazing because it accelerates growth that much faster by actually letting you queue granary before monument...but it also saves the on the monument outright...and it provides these things very early in the game, which is a very high PV. Terrace is a top tier UB for sure, and one of the few that are paired with a top-tier UU.

Hammam and similar early boosts deserved a spot on this list over things like the dun, salon, and forum.

 

[Gwynnja]

It's like the market, only a lot better. If you get 3 from it in addition to the trade route it's a no brainer after things like granary/lighthouse/etc. It's pretty good even if you only get 2. If growing fast under monarchy or rep + drama you can run afoul of the cap quickly so buildings are useful; one that adds more so.

Yeah, but you get those three from a regular harbor too. I don't mean that it's a useless building, or that the cothon isn't an improvement over the harbor. But if you have a start like this: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=410312 it's mostly useless.

My biggest issue with the terrace is that it's a two pop whip where a monument is a one popper. Makes a difference if you're in a hurry to claim resources/block. It's a good UB, but not in the same league as citadel/ikhanda/rathaus and certainly nowhere near a sacrificial alter.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I wouldn't put it over those either (except maybe the citadel, which conflicts a bit with its own great UU). However, it's easily a top 10 UB and close to top 5, and paired with great traits + broken UU that has cheese-rush synergy with it lol.