What the hell happened to France?

I may be going too far off topic with this, but I tried playing France on Immortal (the highest I've ever gone before is Emperor, but I want to try beating Deity at least once in the near future) and it's downright unfair. I can't get anything going, wonders are a waste of time if the AI gets them first (except Stonehenge sometimes works for early religion) and while I should be building up culture buildings the AI either locks me in limiting me to two cities at best and/or declares war on me, meaning I'm caught with my pants around my ankles and with only two or three troops for combat.

France is a straight-up cultural civ, but is that even viable on immortal? Or are immortal and deity the levels where you can only dominate or be dominated?
 
and it's downright unfair.

You will not like Deity then lol.
The key difference at immortal is that you no longer can get early wonders, whereas on emperor you can still get them 90% of the time.

So basing your strategy around getting a particular wonder is futile. You should just concentrate on settling your empire of 3-5 cities, buildings your NC and then turtling towards a win. There's of course a lot of small things to do and think about that differenciates good players from amazing ones and so on.

Anyway, I wouldn't try beating Deity until I've watched a video of someone doing it. Will definitely give you an idea of what strategies to use.

Domination is really the hard way to go btw, far easier to just stay in your corner doing whatever, the AI has no focus in what they do, so while they get almost everything for free, they are still too dumb to use that to their advantage to win the game before a human can.
 
I tried playing France multiple times and I'm sorry, but you guys didn't manage to convince me their UA is any good. There are some very severe problems with France on Immortal and higher. The biggest of all being Wonders. The theming bonus only applies to Museums (of which France can only get one in the capital) and wonders with a theming bonus. These wonders are the Great Library, Sistine Chapel, Globe Theater, Uffizi, Louvre, Broadway, Sydney Opera House, Oxford University and the Hermitage. The latter two are national wonders so you can always get them, and the GL is a no-go on higher levels (someone once told me "Friends don't let friends build the Great Library"). The problem comes with the other ones, making France a very Wonder-reliant building in a game where on the highest two levels it's next to impossible to get the specific wonders you want. Just in my last game I was trying to build the Sistene Chapel but Dido was just ahead of me, and a spy had informed me Theodora had already started constructing the Globe Theater when I didn't even have the right tech for it. And that's despite me having built the National College. Other cultural civs (Brazil, Byzantines, Celts) can function well with or without wonders, but it's only France that NEEDS these wonders. This puts massive pressure on the capital, which needs to have insane production, but at the same time you also need to keep up with science. Even Sejong the Great's UA at least helps with science generation if you're going for a cultural victory. And then there's also the problem of religion, a problem Boudicca has on lockdown but Napoleon will always struggle with. And in a cultural victory you need religion for some good religious policies as well as the world religion perks later in the game.

So in short, I can see your arguments in favor of France's UA but some attempts to play France prove that its wonder dependency means that at higher levels, France may as well not have its UA.
 
So in short, I can see your arguments in favor of France's UA but some attempts to play France prove that its wonder dependency means that at higher levels, France may as well not have its UA.

I said it many times - the strength of France for CV lies not in UA, which indeed is not great (but still useful), but in chateaux.

For more details see this thread (esp. my posts): http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=571291
 
I guess you might have a point. It allows you to get pretty massive in culture, which a hotel converts to tourism. It might also mean France doesn't really get started until later in the game when you get your hotels up and running.

I think I want to restart nonetheless, and sneak in at least a handful of theming bonus wonders. I think my problem is mostly science rather than production in my inability to get one or two wonders in. Since the thread you linked to has no turn-by-turn description of what you did, I'd like to know what you do to not lag behind in science. Other than build the NC asap.
 
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