What to do with camels and elephants?

[The Guardian]

Horses ansd iron will be strategic resources, and so relatively even placed. Camel will be less frequent as limited to desert.

So they will be more a bonus available to Arabia if they start near a desert.


Perhaps you missed the part where I said I like exploraring new maps?

So I want a mod that can work relatively well with random maps.

However, once this is done, I may very well add an optional scenario with a map.

No I didn't miss it. However, if any civ that has the ability to build these improvements that auto-produce these civ specific unit has a start location where the necessary resources are not available won't this cause an imbalance.

 

[Steph]

not really more than if you need iron to built tanks and don't have iron.

 

[Steph]

I think I found a elegant solution

Let's take the example of Arabia.

In era 6, I have 3 lines of spearmen and 3 lines of archer (ex for germany, crossbow, archer, teutonic crossbow, so they are all useful). One of the archer is produced via a small wonder, another via an improvment

But for Arabia, I have only 1 archer available. So each line actually use the same archer unit. So I jsut have to insert the camel as a possible upgrade of the archer produce via the small wonder, and requiring camel.

So: no camel --> a regular archer is produced by the wonder. Came : a cmale archer is produced instead.

 

[Balthasar]

An intriguing idea, but I'm really not sure the AI understand one. Don't forget it's limited by the NS of the programmer.

It's a simple experiment. Put two Civs at opposite ends of a map. Arrange it so that the AI Civ can get a very powerful unit if it can camp on a resource on the opposite side of the map. I'd bet the AI will make a beeline to it even if it's a tundra resource. That's already in the AI's programming, bless its little pointed head....

Also, this means that you don't really have such flavour units as I'd like.

Not so. You could, for example:

give what I have for horse units (since many flavour are available), but make camel units available to any civ, as a kind of bonus "mercenary" bedouin?

Yes, and you could still also have plenty of UU units. More even - that's my idea: the unit (Bedoin) is what the civ builds (rather than a Viking) because the resource (Oasis) is within its city limits. But if that Civ also has Middle Eastern culture, it might build a more powerful Desert Raider. If that Civ is also Arab, it could build an even more powerful Bedouin Raider. Now conversely, if a Civ has a Tundra resource within its city limits it would build Northern Units - heavy boats and fur-clad warriors. If that Civ also has American culture, it would build North American Indian warriors and canoes. If that Civ is also Iroquois, it could build Grizzly Warriors. But if that Civ is Swedes, it would instead build Vikings and Longboats. And so on. This would only apply, of course, to cultures in extreme climates, where seeing fur-clad warriors in the jungle, or bedouins on the Tundra would ring false.

You might also require Grapes to build Roman and Greek power units, for fair measure, to keep them in the temperate zone. Mayans and Africans might get a unit-boost from jungle resources, and so on.

Just in the earliest part of the game, of course. Later, Civs started to put their militaries in uniforms that had little to do with terrain and everything to do with culture. That actually happened: the Moors wore Turbans in Spain, the Byzantines built minarets on the Russian Steppes, the Crusaders invaded the western Mediterranean wearing chain mail & wool undergarments, etc...

It's one way, anyway, to solve your random map terrain vs Civ problem.....

 

[Steph]

Your idea is interesting. I think it's relatively similar to what I have but in a slightly different way.

I cannot use too many specific buildings due to the limitation at 255.

And I couldn't use camel or elephant to replace cavalry, since there is the problem of having horses in the city radius fo cav producing building. If horse is not there, the building producd nothing, so no camel...

The trick was to make it replace infantry. Every faction produces 3 kinds of spearmen / Archer, one kind with a smple improvment (for the base unit, Spearman I, no limitation), other kinds with small wonder (Spearman III, elite units).

Often, the civ doesn't really have an elite unit available. So in that case, I just use a copy of the regular units (with small bon,us like +1 HP), it serves as a placeholder, to avoid breaking the line until a better unit is available later.

I have for instance
Spearman I era 1 --> Spearman I era 2
Spearman III era 1 --> Spearman III era 2

So for y resource issue, I have just inserted a camel like that
Spearman III era 1 --> Camel era 1--> Spearman III era 2 --> Camel era 2

So if the arabs have camel, they would build camel rider instead of Spearman III (the infantry barrack small wonder which requires no resource), and if they don't have camel, they just build regular infantry.

I'm using something similar for horsemen with armor: the building requires horse in city radius. And then, if the player has iron, he build stronger horsemen than he can without iron. It's actually the same unit (graphics) but with some HP penalty to represent smaller units, due to difficulty to get tjeir equipment, but without unbalancing the game too much.

If you don't have iron, you could still built armor, but less and weaker than if you have iron.

 

[Steph]

I tried to continue design, using the gunpowder era (so far I had done it up to late medieval).
At the end of late medieval, I have
- 3 small wonders producing heavy infantry (swordsme, axeme, foot knight)
- 3 buildings for defensive infantry, one improvment, 2 small wonders (pikeman,
halberder)
- 2 small donwers producing archers / crossbow
- 3 improvment for calvary (1 small wodner for heavy, one improvment requiring horse for horsemen, another for range cavalry)

So a total of 11 buildings

At the Napoleonic wars era, I have:
- Guard infantry : 1 small wonder
- Elite infantry : 2 small wonders (could make simplye grenadiers)
- Line infantry : 1 improvment
- Marines : 1 small wonder, coastal
- Light infantry : 2 small wonder
- Guard cavlary : 1 small wonder
- Elite cavalry : 1 small wonder
- Heavy cavalry : 1 small wonder
- Range cavalry : 1 improvment requring horse
- lightcavalry : 2 improvment requring horse


So a total of 13 buildings

This does not count artillery and navy.