[GS] What unique features of civs should be buffed in the next patch?

[Krajzen]

So, I got this idea. We are currently past the "bottom tier" phase in all four elimination threads devoted to ranking unique abilities, units and infrastructure from best to worst. So we have the list of unique factional stuff which was considered bad by many people. So...

All entries on the list were among bottom 10 in their categories with the exception of Tsikhe (bottom 11).
I omitted several badly rated things because of poll limitations, and because I figured out their awfulness comes from their regular replacements being bad, not unique features being not enough. Those things are Thermal Bath, Street Carnival, Tlachtli (all three would need mainly just need entertainment districts being more important) and P51, Uboat, Highlander (just too late and/or too weird replacers - if we had Rifleman unit then Highlander could replace it, now it will always be useless as Ranger replacement).

All stuff is sorted alphabetically besides first two because I forgot about them at first.
And yes, after all buffs, Georgia still got all of its features in the bottom 10 of our elimination threads lol. Another epic fails are France and Khmer who got three of its four features in the bottom 10. Those three civs should be IMO just reworked and redesigned.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

Queen's Bibliotheque could need a buff or be built into the second tier government Plaza buildings. In its current form it is just a big art museum that use up your second tier government Plaza slot.

Pretty much all late game civilization such as America, Sweden and others could need a buff because they fall behind alot due to snowballing and their late game unique is seldom enough to make up for that gap. Obviously late game starts Changes alot here.

Entertainment district could need a buff like each building increase the effect of happiness level by +5% so with all buildings you would gain + 20% and + 40% to all yields with +1 and +3 amenties which would be alot stronger and also encourage you to build up cities instead of having alot of small cities.

Walls could need some sort of buff, I would say the housing from monarchy should be built into the walls as that bonus make monarchy a bit to situational, Georgia could be buffed to get +1 housing from each level of wall for +2 from each level of wall which would be rather decent and make it easier to build up to Tsikhe.

Hard to say about civs unique abilities and such, some civs like Korea is basically one tick ponies which still rank very highly based on pretty much a single part of their civ and would be even stronger if they are buffed. Other civs are pretty much all around weak for some reason, often because they get their stuff too late to be competetive against the early game powerhouses.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Something with Khmer. It seems like a really neat concept overall that doesn't quite work out.

 

[BenitoChavez]

I think that the Berserker, Khevsur, and Samurai all suffer from the same issues. Namely that they need to be hard built, are on some out of the way tech away from the other classical-medieval military techs, and musketmen come so soon afterwards that they don't really get much value. Replacing swordsman with them would alleviate those issues but is somewhat ahistorical which I don't really like.

I'm still scratching my head as to why the Château was effectively nerfed. It wasn't exactly super powerful pre-GS.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

Something with Khmer. It seems like a really neat concept overall that doesn't quite work out.

Maybe the issue is that martyr promotion is not really that good since you need to get your missonaries killed (or apsotles for everyone else) which hurt your religion and lose your faith atleast in the short term. Also religious tourism get a nerf once civs reach the enlightenment. The extra food is not bad but you need housing in order to make best use of it and they have no additional housing and non of the stuff they get are really powerhouses.

But on other hand civs like Sweden or America are not much better since you have to play much of the game, especially the important early game without much of their bonuses unlocked. I rank late game bonus as pretty much they may not as well exist because against the ai you should have Control over the game at this Point.

I'm still scratching my head as to why the Château was effectively nerfed. It wasn't exactly super powerful pre-GS.

Maybe you should only be allowed to build it next to wonders, instead of rivers but buffed to maybe 8 Culture or something which would encourage France to build wonders and get big Culture out of it.

I think that the Berserker, Khevsur, and Samurai all suffer from the same issues. Namely that they need to be hard built, are on some out of the way tech away from the other classical-medieval military techs, and musketmen come so soon afterwards that they don't really get much value. Replacing swordsman with them would alleviate those issues but is somewhat ahistorical which I don't really like.

How quickly you get to them depend on how quickly you rush the Techs. The hard build requirment + that infantry is inferior to cavalry is their weakness.

 

[leandrombraz]

Georgia's Strength in unity doesn't need a buff, it need to be made relevant by making it harder to get streaks of golden age. It's just too easy to get golden ages in every era, it's even easier if you're conquering left and right. Meanwhile, it's unlikely that you gonna get a dark age, unless you do it on purpose (it took me 2 years to get one lol). They need to increase the penalty for getting golden ages and for having more cities, then Georgia's era score bonuses will be relevant. Same for the Taj Mahal, it's pretty useless now. Golden ages streaks need to be harder and dark ages more likely to happen.

Her 100% faith bonus need to be more consistent. You can't really count on protectorate wars, it's an extremely inconsistent trigger, which mean you can't build a strategy around her faith bonus.

I think that the Berserker, Khevsur, and Samurai all suffer from the same issues. Namely that they need to be hard built, are on some out of the way tech away from the other classical-medieval military techs, and musketmen come so soon afterwards that they don't really get much value. Replacing swordsman with them would alleviate those issues but is somewhat ahistorical which I don't really like.

I'm still scratching my head as to why the Château was effectively nerfed. It wasn't exactly super powerful pre-GS.

I'm not against that but I didn't have any problem using Berserkers because it synergize well with the Stave Church and Norway's focus on pillaging. You can rush Theocracy and Grand Master's Chapel, then faith buy a wave of Berserkers. Then you rush corps and keep then relevant by faith buying even more Berserkers to form corps with your veteran Berserkers. Basically you don't need to hard build it if you focus on faith, which you should be doing as Norway anyway, then you can delay the Musketman upgrade using corps or even skip it to upgrade directly to Infantry.

 

[Leucarum]

I'd focus on the civs that are weakest overall. Georgia still being the main weak link. It's fine for one part of a civ's package to be weak if other parts compensate

 

[IvoryPavane]

I think Georgia is in a significantly better position than it was in R&F. It just needs a few tweaks to make all of its various elements tie together more effectively. Here are some random brainstorms on how this could be achieved:

-- Georgia should start the game with the ability to wage protectorate wars. Getting the trigger isn't the issue, it's just the AI has usually decimated the city states it wants to before she researches the policy
-- Her UU should either have an interesting design perk, or be strong but basic. Right now it doesn't satisfy either. Either make it that you can upgrade into it, or have it so that it does something interesting to justify hard building it on an awkward tech line. You could do some really interesting stuff (like having Khevsurs spread religion in some fashion, or they can instantly build a tier of walls in a city), but for the sake of balance, I would just allow them to be purchased with faith from the off, and maybe give bonus faith on pillage/unit kill.
-- I don't think the Tshike is in that bad of a state. 8 faith and 6 tourism is quite solid, and the production costs have gone down a lot over the year. It still could use a little oomph though because it obsoletes so quickly. Maybe something like religious pressure exerting further or stronger from cities with a Tshike?
-- I think the Golden Age is generally fine, but maybe a little bit of sweetness to counteract the fact that Georgia is basically precluded from anything but Golden Ages and Normal Ages. Maybe a chaining bonus for each Golden Age she enters? (Like 3% faith increase per Golden Age she chains, and stop if she doesn't hit the age? Probably average out to 9-12% increase in faith over a long game, which is a nice buff but unlikely to break anything)

Also worth noting that continual refinement of the Diplomacy system will naturally buff Georgia as the Civ is very strong at gaining Diplo favour.

 

[acluewithout]

I don’t think there are any Civs crying out for tweaks, at least not since the last patch.

My thoughts.

• Georgia. Georgia seem like they’re in a good place. Their UU could be a bit better - it should maybe get a bonus on Hills and Woods, like Scotland’s Highlander. Medieval and Renaissance Walls also maybe need a buff generally. Otherwise, I think Georgia wins the “most improved Civ” award for 2019. (France had to give the prize up at some point.)
• Khmer. These guys are super fun, and I really don’t think they need any buffs or tweaks really. Yeah, maybe FXS could give them cheaper Aqueducts or something, and I wouldn’t complain. But they don’t really need it either.
• Cree. These guys should start with a free recon unit, to offset the additional cost of their Scout. I don’t know why this isn’t already a thing. Seems like a no-brainer to me. But Cree aren’t underpowered obviously.
• China. China needs a alt leader more focused on War, and the Civ needs another unique unit. China is well balanced, but is punching well below its weight for historical flavour.
• Mapuche. I don’t play these guys, so can’t really comment, but they do seem a bit rubbish. Just my impression. Or maybe they are just boring. Don’t know. Maybe need a look.
• Canada. These guys just don’t work. I’m not saying they’re underpowered. I just think they don’t work. Farms on Tundra suck. Their UU is a meme and is terrible. And the no Surprise War feels like a Gimmick. Just a mess.

There’s a bunch of Civ’s that would be a bit better if Anti-Cav were better balanced (basically, any Civs with a AC UU or Melee Units that unlock at Military Tactics).

I used to think Civs like Spain and England needed Colonialism to be buffed, but actually they’re much better Civs already now because of the new maps (Continent + Islands is the default mao now, right?). Although, I still think Colonial Cities could be a bit more valuable.

 

[Pietato]

France relies entirely on the Leader bonus.
Netherlands basically have no Leader bonus.

 

[TheyMadeMeDoThis]

I'd like to see Willhelmina's Radio Oranje buffed by quite a bit, +1 Loyalty is just useless, I never get to use it. I'd say it needs to be at least +5 or even equivalent to a Governer's +8 to have any value.

The culture bonus should scale with origin city's culture yield or districts, or grow over time in some way imho.

The Dutch are a great civ, very fun to play but Radio Oranje is just weak sauce atm...

 

[Junky89]

I would like to see that unique improvements could be build on forests and rainforests. I don't want to chop all my beloved nature in my kingdom just because a tiny mission or a small monastery.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

I'd focus on the civs that are weakest overall. Georgia still being the main weak link. It's fine for one part of a civ's package to be weak if other parts compensate

Im not sure about that, Gerorgia bonuses may not be impressive but getting few cheaper walls or an easier time to chain golden ages are still something while someone like Sweden have pretty much no bonuses early game and being good at late game is Worth nothing against the ai in its current form.

So I suspect you can atleast make a case that some late games civs may be weaker than Gerorgia, because no bonuses < medicore bonuses

 

[ezzlar]

I would prefer two map changes that would improve some of the civs: Number of religions not connected to map size, but to number of civs. Number of continents not connected to map size but generally same number of continents across maps (if possible).

Many civs are connected to the religious game or continents. A duel map for Continents just voids any bonuses connected to "other" continents. Or Norway picking up a religion since there seem to be one "over".

 

[Jkchart]

I don’t think there are any Civs crying out for tweaks, at least not since the last patch.

My thoughts.

• Georgia. Georgia seem like they’re in a good place. Their UU could be a bit better - it should maybe get a bonus on Hills and Woods, like Scotland’s Highlander. Medieval and Renaissance Walls also maybe need a buff generally. Otherwise, I think Georgia wins the “most improved Civ” award for 2019. (France had to give the prize up at some point.)
• Khmer. These guys are super fun, and I really don’t think they need any buffs or tweaks really. Yeah, maybe FXS could give them cheaper Aqueducts or something, and I wouldn’t complain. But they don’t really need it either.
• Cree. These guys should start with a free recon unit, to offset the additional cost of their Scout. I don’t know why this isn’t already a thing. Seems like a no-brainer to me. But Cree aren’t underpowered obviously.
• China. China needs a alt leader more focused on War, and the Civ needs another unique unit. China is well balanced, but is punching well below its weight for historical flavour.
• Mapuche. I don’t play these guys, so can’t really comment, but they do seem a bit rubbish. Just my impression. Or maybe they are just boring. Don’t know. Maybe need a look.
• Canada. These guys just don’t work. I’m not saying they’re underpowered. I just think they don’t work. Farms on Tundra suck. Their UU is a meme and is terrible. And the no Surprise War feels like a Gimmick. Just a mess.

There’s a bunch of Civ’s that would be a bit better if Anti-Cav were better balanced (basically, any Civs with a AC UU or Melee Units that unlock at Military Tactics).

I used to think Civs like Spain and England needed Colonialism to be buffed, but actually they’re much better Civs already now because of the new maps (Continent + Islands is the default mao now, right?). Although, I still think Colonial Cities could be a bit more valuable.

Clue you read my mind these days.

 

[IvoryPavane]

My biggest issue with Radio Oranje is how boring it is. The 1 culture per trade actually isn't toooo bad in the very early game, but it's still not a great combination of non-impactful and non-interesting. If its overall purpose is to showcase the benefits people get from trading with the Netherlands then I'd really showcase that (especially when the intro to the Civ makes it seem like Willie is the Queen I want to trade with, whereas I'd be better off trading with Egypt etc etc).

Some suggestions:

-- Internal trade routes Wilhelmina initiates provide +1 yield of any district she has set up next to a river (to synergise with Grote Riverien)
-- Incoming trade routes to Wilhelmina provide +1 Food and +1 Production to the initiating Civ, and provide +1 culture to Willie and reduce the loyalty impacts of the sending Civ on the Netherlands (would need to be careful with this one, but it's a more interesting way of tackling loyalty imo)
-- Trade routes provide a bonus when travelling over Polders and Rivers
-- External trade routes from the Netherlands provide +2 culture to Wilhelmina, trade routes coming into Wilhelmina provide +1 culture (still a bit dull, but more impactful)

 

[Victoria]

Garde imperiale
Should stay the same but be +15 and -5 for every garde unit after the first. Cannot form corps or armies.
It truly is a unique unit.

 

[Kmart_Elvis]

I think a great change to Radio Oranje without having to change the numbers would be the ability to cancel any trade route at any time. This would allow you to immediately divert a trade route to a city that needs it. Say you conquered a city and it's hemmoraging 5 loyalty a turn. Redirect 5 trade routes and send it to that city.

 

[bengalryan9]

I voted for Chateau, Grand Tour, and Dharma.

There are plenty of bad features in the poll above, but most of the civs are overall just fine. Do civs like Greece, Norway, Nubia, or Korea really need any help? I don't really think so. Another example would be the Aztec UI (which isn't listed) - it's terrible, but it's balanced because everything else the Aztec has is great.

 

[bengalryan9]

Maybe the issue is that martyr promotion is not really that good since you need to get your missonaries killed (or apsotles for everyone else) which hurt your religion and lose your faith atleast in the short term. Also religious tourism get a nerf once civs reach the enlightenment. The extra food is not bad but you need housing in order to make best use of it and they have no additional housing and non of the stuff they get are really powerhouses.

I disagree, I think the Khmer are ok. Those early martyr promotions on missionaries can lead to such a huge boost in tourism and faith generation that it's a really powerful ability IMO. There's even a belief that you can take that prevents loss of religious pressure due to losses in combat if that's a big concern.

Everything else the Khmer has is pretty dull (though Monasteries of the King paired with River Goddess is nice), but I don't know... I think they're fine overall.