Phrossack said:
I didn't respond to points made about the inherent injustice of the system. I responded to TF's blanket statements about what all white people are apparently like, and what all white people are apparently guilty for, except apparently for the Irish. My point is that it's wrong to make blanket statements about any race, ethnicity, culture, etc, which is apparently so radical that I was instantly branded a racist by Crezth.
So why jump on
me for making a joke? A joke which was actively parodying the sorts of knee-jerk, racially charged responses that white people have to all manner of issues that touch on people of color? Why don't you spend your time jumping on a potential US Presidents for blaming black disadvantage on the failures of "black culture" (sorry "inner city culture")? Or the trope about how black people in the US "just commit more crime" rather than the discriminatory policies and practices that make them into criminals? Or the literally thousands of other discriminatory, bigoted and racist tropes that underpin most US political discourse? Why indeed.
Let's also consider who was calling me out for this first. It was none other than caketastydelish who is on record admitting that he hates Muslims and Arabs and takes an inordinate pride in his "Aryan" heritage. Someone whose views it seems so well align with Quacker's own that he can comfort him by saying "Don't let the flamers get to you. You are excellent." This is the company you find yourself in. For shame.
Phrossack said:
It's that cliqueishness that makes WH in particular, and CFC in general, a pretty unpleasant place at times. Now, you've been polite, and the others have generally been alright so far in this particular thread, but it's hard to ignore how Crezth makes literally no contributions to the thread except bitterly sarcastic insinuations while Masada just pats him and all the others on the back and says they're taking a "principled stand." Randomly accusing people of racism and acting so childishly isn't principled. It's not like the clique here is some noble band of white knights crusading against the evil forces of racism. I've seen this here before. The most prominent WHers are a pretty tight group, and whenever someone shows up who disagrees with them, they all gang up on them and congratulate each other.
"We" (whoever "we" is meant to be) are not just doing this because "we" hate you. "We" are doing this because you expressed odious views. Odious views I might add which you swiftly abandoned when pushed on them. For example, you opened with this:
Phrossack said:
Bigotry against blacks and Asians is widely and openly condemned in modern American society, at least.
Seems rather simple, no? Bigotry is bad and is "openly condemned" in the US. When pressed on this absolutely farcical notion you changed tact, saying "well jeez actually it's just...
Phrossack said:
Racist jokes and stereotypes [that] are not considered socially acceptable anymore, which is a good thing.
See what happened? You went from bigotry being condemned to just racist jokes and stereotypes. But that's not all because lots of bigotry and racism apparently exists in your US...
Phrossack said:
Now, this does not mean that subtle or not-so-subtle, latent discrimination against minorities or women does not exist. It does, and that's wrong and should be combated. It is more difficult for minorities to get jobs, and they get stopped by police more often and face harsher treatment in the judicial system. My grandfather was stopped from time to time at airports for looking Arab (he was Arab), and my black older brother got pulled over by police fairly often. Blacks tend to get longer prison sentences for the same crimes, and police are more likely to suspect and abuse them. And these things are wrong, and should be stopped.
Bigotry you claimed originally didn't exist. You'll also note that you've now admitted that you actually knows all about racism in the US. Your older brother (!) no less got pulled over by the cops "fairly often" for DWB. But that's not stereotyping. No sir that negro just had a headlight out/was driving too fast/smelled like marijuana/had a nice car
/was black.
Phrossack said:
I didn't respond to points made about the inherent injustice of the system. I responded to TF's blanket statements about what all white people are apparently like, and what all white people are apparently guilty for, except apparently for the Irish. My point is that it's wrong to make blanket statements about any race, ethnicity, culture, etc, which is apparently so radical that I was instantly branded a racist by Crezth.
"I didn't actually mean what I said I said, honest."
Phrossack said:
Moreover, my views about race in America are anything but optimistic. The fact that race is still an issue or even an accepted concept in America suggests to me that the situation will be bad for another century or two, if not more. Which is one of dozens of reasons that I have little intention of staying in American society.
"My impossibly optimistic assessment that stereotyping and bigotry aren't acceptable in the US might have been true [?] in very small part in certain company but I still hate this place because stereotyping and bigotry are going to outlive me by a century or so minimun."
Phrossack said:
Crezth didn't make any principled stand; he's made exactly one post here, which insinuated that I think that black people are the problem. He immediately accused me of racism, saying
Calling out bigoted views is the definition of a principled stand in this business. Now you aren't a racist, we've established that. But that doesn't mean you can't hold bigoted views. We all hold them. But yours are rather more damaging than mine. Mine include an active distrust of white policeman and (some) white authority figures in suits. Is it unfair? A little because I know its a stereotype. But it's a good rule of thumb because you only have to make a mistake once...
All I'm asking you to do is reflect on what your views are for a moment because your views seem to be somewhat closer to what you said towards the end of this exchange - views which are for the most part fine - rather than what you opened with. But you really need to think why the hell you felt the knee-jerk need to deny that bigotry and stereotyping aren't a thing in the US when you clearly know from personal experience that they are. You might also want to reflect on whether or not you ever want to happen to agree with Quackers on anything political ever again.