Which early social policy tree is most likely to have your most frequent adoption?

[oddtail]

Seconded. Because why not?

Thirded! This is an awesome concept =) I do think Settlers should be fairly expensive when bought this way, but it is a great addition both gameplay-wise and flavour-wise.

 

[RealHuhn]

Piety seems really good now, especially quick shrines from the get-go, then double faith for them. And since it no longer clashes with rationalism, I think it'll be my go-to.

With tradition allowing faith purchased GE's, is that from as soon as you finish tradition, or you still have to wait 'till industrial era?

edit: @ Rob : Does that actually net you a settler faster than if you went the more direct route?

No, it isn't faster. It's slower. And everyone who goes Tradition opener for the sole purpose of getting +3 culture should learn more about the exponential increase in social policy costs. It never pays for itself.

Yes, you still have to wait until industrial era.

And agreed on your thoughts on Piety. In early game, production is very scarce, so every production boost helps. Liberty settler spam plus Piety opener should work well together.

 

[VainApocalypse]

I'll never play anyone but Venice, so it'll be tradition.

 

[AlpsStranger]

Settlers with faith, huh? I think that might work, actually.

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

edit: @ Rob : Does that actually net you a settler faster than if you went the more direct route?

No, it isn't faster. It's slower. And everyone who goes Tradition opener for the sole purpose of getting +3 culture should learn more about the exponential increase in social policy costs. It never pays for itself.

I carried out a little experiment whereby I built a city on turn one, built a monument as my first build and didn't sent out my warrior to investigate (in case he got free culture from some ancient ruins).

Going the direct route, it took 32 turns to get my free settler. Going via Tradition for the 3 culture, it took 37 turns. Naturally, this means that going direct is the quickest way of getting the settler; if you're planning on getting Tradition (which, remember, you've not yet got because you went direct), then I'd suggest it'd take longer than the 5 turns extra it took by going for Tradition first. Sounds complicated, hope you understand what I mean!

 

[Velex]

Interesting!

Yes, I see if you're getting more than one tradition policy, it'd speed up the same number of policies to get the +3 earlier.

 

[AlpsStranger]

Plus the tradition opener border pop is not nothing.

 

[livsbrand]

I tend to go Liberty even if the start screams for Trad, and now that it will harder to rush buy Settlers I lean towards Liberty even more. Besides, I love the worker speed from Pyramids and Hanging Gardens feels impossible to get on Immortal. Maybe Tradition will appeal to me more if AI is less likely to get early HG. I'll probably role-play a lot in BNW though, so I'll definitely do Piety openers with religiously themed civs and Honor openers with war themed civs. SoZ with Assyria seems fun for instance. Liberty gets my vote though.

 

[adwcta]

Plus the tradition opener border pop is not nothing.

It's like the entirety of the Russian UB!

 

[adwcta]

I voted for Tradition, but I can see Piety becoming the new favorite if having the dominant religion is really as important as they're touting. I think on higher difficulties opening Piety (perhaps mixed w/ Tradition/Liberty like how Honor works now) vs opening Tradition will 100% be the difference between having a religion and not having one.

Much like how you'd invest in science early on even though it's doing nothing for you, it may pay off to invest in religion early on (and the pantheon even has a benefit!) so that you're all set up for whatever you're aiming to accomplish in the mid/late game. You might see civs you wouldn't normally associate with Piety go down that route, like Siam for CS control.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

Liberty, Collective Rule says it all, I always go for that first followed by the other three policies (Worker, Decreased Policy Increase, then the other one, and a free Great Person). Always, I then fill up Tradition, but as Piety is no longer conflicting with Rationalism I will now open it as well and focus on religion boost.

 

[Arvoreniad]

I mostly play tall games, so I tend to use Tradition in most circumstances, and I don't expect that to change in BNW. I am pleased to see Piety move to the Ancient Era though - I always felt it was a little bit out of place as the only classical tree.

 

[chazzycat]

I wonder if it will still be impossible to ICS without religion happiness. That could be the key factor whether liberty or piety is a better approach for that playstyle. If that happiness is still necessary then I think piety will be a very powerful opener (assuming +1 faith from monuments/temples is the 2nd policy).

Tradition I am much less excited about, now that you have to be friends to receive lump sum gold. It's not nearly as good when you have to hard-build settlers to expand, IMO. It will still be very good for OCC, but beyond that I'm predicting liberty will take over as the standard for anyone who wishes to REX.

 

[Zet]

Honor still needs to have its terrible opener fixed. Free barracks in the first four cities would be good.

The top-left Honor policy (whose name is escaping me at the moment, the one with a free GG) also needs to be improved. The production bonus is only 15%, and only applies to melee units. That hardly makes any difference, especially when the best units are not melee.

The Piety finisher is a little strange still. Nobody cares about +3 culture from holy sites.

 

[Rajjah]

I think Liberty should allow you to build settlers with faith.

At least it would give liberty something. Its the only one besides piety that doesn't allow you to purchase great people, and piety helps you purchase the other people by helping you with faith so .....

 

[bcaiko]

All of the Civs I love and want to play happen to lean warmonger, so I can always count on wanting the Honor policy. Being able to buy Great Generals with faith to snag that needed resource right out of reach is just gravy.

Honor still seems worthless, though maybe barb culture will be more valuable now.
To know how good new Piety would be we'll have to play a few games.

You have clearly never met someone who has completed the Honor tree. Discounted upgrades, double experience, GOLD PER KILL. After completing the Honor tree, I never have to worry about money again while I roll my neighbors and beyond.

And now you only get the Statue of Zeus by going Honor. Finally I can stop Babylon from *always* building it (it's like Nebby is BEGGING me to come kill him).

I picked Honor because i love playing Sweden, and apparently, one of the early Honor SP increases your GG production by 25% (The SP i'm talking is the one that gives you a GG). I saw the info on a screenshot, can't exactly remember.

If it hasn't changed, that policy is 25% production bonus toward building melee units and a free Great General. It's good for cleaning up Barbarian encampments in the early game and winning over (or bullying) city states.

 

[Arvoreniad]

With regard to crawf0rd's idea, I think that would give Liberty a needed boost, but it might be a bit overpowered in combination with ICS using a civ like Maya. Perhaps buying workers or city tiles with faith might be an option.

 

[NukeAJS]

My buddy and I were yacking yesterday and we determined that the easiest way to "fix" honor is to put military caste, warrior code, and discipline on the first tier of the tree.

Have military tradition require warrior code, and have professional army require either military caste or discipline -- both on the second tier

Meaning more choices, and no third tier.

Either that, or have the opener give culture for all kills, not just barbarians.

 

[livsbrand]

Do we have the full BNW Piety tree btw?

 

[Veneke]

Usually I go for Tradition and I don't see that changing all that much although I do think that I'll grab the Piety opener before starting the Tradition tree; just to have the best possible chance of an early shrine bagging a religion.