Why did we found Asympotate?
- Thread starter MrBanana
- Start date
I think the short answer is we did not anticipate the decision-making process of CDZ. Guess this threads serves to get everyone's attention again though, but we just need to wait and see what everyone on the team thinks. Here's most of the discussion and our consensus for the most part. We didn't expect CDZ to settle out that far, but we did worry about control of the peninsula positioning and resources. So we made the decision for Asymptote which just turned out not quite so great.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=362872&page=19
Copper isn't a loss strategically at least because we have iron, so we can still build/upgrade all types of units we'll need. But Cosmos was a solid productive city so it's unfortunate CDZ got it. On the other hand we could feasibly put the pressure back on and claim solid land towards their side, we'll have to see.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=362872&page=19
Copper isn't a loss strategically at least because we have iron, so we can still build/upgrade all types of units we'll need. But Cosmos was a solid productive city so it's unfortunate CDZ got it. On the other hand we could feasibly put the pressure back on and claim solid land towards their side, we'll have to see.
It's easy in hind sight to evaluate the decision as a bad decision. I think that had we not found Asymptote then CDZ definitely would have and I think that they have taken an aggressive stance in response to our taking what they thought was theirs.
Further more I think they realise that if they don't get their culture running fast they will lose their city to a flip or at the very least will be made unworkable by our culture squeezing them out of the useable land.
Yes, the orginal Cosmos sight has been lost. We were beaten to it because we needed Stonehenge. Overall I don't think this is a game breaker.
I like to think of it this way. Our opponents were kind enough to consult us on where we wanted our future city of Cosmos to be. The only question the Continuum still need to answer is how to we liberate our citizens from their tyrannical rule?
Further more I think they realise that if they don't get their culture running fast they will lose their city to a flip or at the very least will be made unworkable by our culture squeezing them out of the useable land.
Yes, the orginal Cosmos sight has been lost. We were beaten to it because we needed Stonehenge. Overall I don't think this is a game breaker.
I like to think of it this way. Our opponents were kind enough to consult us on where we wanted our future city of Cosmos to be. The only question the Continuum still need to answer is how to we liberate our citizens from their tyrannical rule?
This is the type of epic quote that should be remembered for post game discussion after it's all over.
I do think part of the answer is that if we had founded Cosmos, CDZ would have settled somewhere else annoying, you're very right about that. We probably didn't realize the extent of aggressiveness they were going for though.
I still think we do have the advantage on culture and taking control of what we can though, we just have to play it right.
cav scout
The Continuum
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If we had founded Cosmos instead they would have surely founded at our Asymptote site and locked up the entire peninsula with the stone and whales.
I don't think anyone anticipated CDZ founding a city on our coastline. Hindsight is 20/20, looking back we should had sent them a diplo message early on defining spheres of influence and splitting the peninsula down the middle.
I don't think anyone anticipated CDZ founding a city on our coastline. Hindsight is 20/20, looking back we should had sent them a diplo message early on defining spheres of influence and splitting the peninsula down the middle.
I think we're really overdoing this border warring with CDZ. It's not my perception that these games ever stabalize at the point where the whole world is settled, so the gain from fighting over this is very small, even a loss when it leads to founding early cities in sub-par locations like Asymptote. We don't have a complete picture of it yet, but it is highly likely that there are also excellent city spots on the other petal.
In my opinion our overall city founding strategy should be to sequentially found the best available city sites, independent of these petty land-grabbing concerns with our neighbors. Then when we feel like the next city we are able to found is substantially worse than the nearby opponent cities we switch to taking cities. There's no reason to worry about who gets the weak city locations or if nobody gets them at all. Let the other civs burden themselves trying to turn a profit on a location like asymptote.
I'm sure you're right that had we not founded asymptote they would have instead, though it wouldn't had any effect on the stone. We wouldn't have been any differently situated to get that either way.
We can't worry too much about the past. What's done is done. Hindsight is 20/20 and all that. In the long run this one decision won't cost us much. If we're using some poor processes to arrive at these decisions though that's something to think about.
In my opinion our overall city founding strategy should be to sequentially found the best available city sites, independent of these petty land-grabbing concerns with our neighbors. Then when we feel like the next city we are able to found is substantially worse than the nearby opponent cities we switch to taking cities. There's no reason to worry about who gets the weak city locations or if nobody gets them at all. Let the other civs burden themselves trying to turn a profit on a location like asymptote.
I'm sure you're right that had we not founded asymptote they would have instead, though it wouldn't had any effect on the stone. We wouldn't have been any differently situated to get that either way.
We can't worry too much about the past. What's done is done. Hindsight is 20/20 and all that. In the long run this one decision won't cost us much. If we're using some poor processes to arrive at these decisions though that's something to think about.
Asymptote isn't really sub-par though, we have two resources and an Oasis. But it isn't the best, and I agree with your general sentiment. We can definitely already see at least one solid city on the Indian petal (Axiom, two clams + fp + who knows) and I'm sure there will be more, and Singularity at home is also valuable.
But in the same line of thought, accepting that yes, everything won't be settled immediately, it can be worth just as much in game terms to deny an opponent economy and resources. If CDZ has three!! cities they've settled here made pretty worthless, due to us out-pressuring them, that puts us still in a strong position in regards to them. And given the alliances setup in the game, we're not the most worried about out teching everyone else or something, but being in a stronger position to emerge from the middle game, that's a key accomplishment. There's only six total teams and it's going to come down to direct confrontation in most cases, it's not like there are really distant opponents we're going to fall behind. So it's a fine balance - I'm not for going more overboard on CDZ but we have one city about to be founded now that I think is necessary, after that I'm happy to adapt and consider other positions.
Still I may be rambling - and I do want to say I was rather strongly for REXing and finding good city sites at the start, certainly would have been nice if we were in a little better position regarding that, but where we are now we're all trying to get the best outcomes for the team.
But in the same line of thought, accepting that yes, everything won't be settled immediately, it can be worth just as much in game terms to deny an opponent economy and resources. If CDZ has three!! cities they've settled here made pretty worthless, due to us out-pressuring them, that puts us still in a strong position in regards to them. And given the alliances setup in the game, we're not the most worried about out teching everyone else or something, but being in a stronger position to emerge from the middle game, that's a key accomplishment. There's only six total teams and it's going to come down to direct confrontation in most cases, it's not like there are really distant opponents we're going to fall behind. So it's a fine balance - I'm not for going more overboard on CDZ but we have one city about to be founded now that I think is necessary, after that I'm happy to adapt and consider other positions.
Still I may be rambling - and I do want to say I was rather strongly for REXing and finding good city sites at the start, certainly would have been nice if we were in a little better position regarding that, but where we are now we're all trying to get the best outcomes for the team.
As a counter point: Without Stonehenge to pressure CDZ, our current REXing plan would be weak. Considering the amount of time that it took us to build I don't think that we're that far behind. In fact I am wondering what CDZ are doing considering that we built an extra work boat AND Stonehenge and we're not that many turns behind on REXing.
Well, we easily could have like 6-7 cities right now, settled on the mainland first around turn 60 and beaten CDZ to most spots if they settled at the same rate they did in actuality. We certainly did not know how everything with tech, alliances and so on would play out. And Stonehenge is all right, I'm not really regretting it - the cultural pressure and free buildings offer other benefits and make up for some of the differences in REXing.
But you are right that CDZ has been extremely one-minded. They aren't doing anything it appears besides going for land - no real buildups of GNP, tech, religion, wonders. They might have lucked out more than anyone from becoming part of the ETTT alliance, on their own they'd maybe have Metal Casting and like nothing on the other side of the tech tree.
But you are right that CDZ has been extremely one-minded. They aren't doing anything it appears besides going for land - no real buildups of GNP, tech, religion, wonders. They might have lucked out more than anyone from becoming part of the ETTT alliance, on their own they'd maybe have Metal Casting and like nothing on the other side of the tech tree.
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