Why do people take it personally?

[charon2112]

I haven't experienced any of these bugs, so yes, on some set-ups the game works fine.

So their brand of hard drive meant that the Great Wall actually worked?

The brand of ram they had caused the trade bugs to disappear?

The clock speed of their CPU prevented the construction of catapults without Iron Working?

The Nvidia driver release they were using caused Ramkhamhaeng's Father Governs Children ability to work reliably?

The game runs perfectly well for me. I'm referring to the gameplay bugs, poor AI, and boring selection of buildings when I call the game unfinished.

 

[AlpsStranger]

Now don't get me wrong, I'm one of the ones that enjoys Civ V. I do however feel "let down" myself since this game is missing elements that even Civ Rev (the console-designed itineration) has and got right. But, we are discussing why "people take it personally". We have given Firaxis much of our money, time, effort and devotion. We don't feel that Civ V is a reward for that.

I'm in the great valley of the excluded middle as well. I'm disappointed in release Civ5 but see it as a foundation for a truly awesome game sometime down the road. We are largely ignored. We can only look up in awe as we see the artillery shells fired back and forth between Fort Evrett37 and Fanboi Mountain.

 

[AlpsStranger]

I haven't experienced any of these bugs, so yes, on some set-ups the game works fine.

So the actual script and gameplay bugs aren't present on your system? The Great Wall actually causes units to slow down and you don't get the trade bugs? Amazing

 

[SuperJay]

Relic makes my favorite style of RTS (the DoW/CoH lineup) and are exploring the astoundingly lame micro-transaction revenue model. They took a game I love dearly, Company of Heroes, and created a disgusting sort of Korean grindfest with Micro-transactions based on it*shudder* So believe me when I say that I'm well aware how deep the rabbit hole goes on this kind of garbage

Whoah, what?? I loved Company of Heroes, what's the name of this new game you're referring to? (Sorry, off-topic, but I haven't heard of it.)

 

[Justicex]

I'm in the great valley of the excluded middle as well. I'm disappointed in release Civ5 but see it as a foundation for a truly awesome game sometime down the road. We are largely ignored. We can only look up in awe as we see the artillery shells fired back and forth between Fort Evrett37 and Fanboi Mountain.

Actually, I think the Fanboi Mountain civ was eliminated in 3000bc but someone forgot to tell the Fort Evrett37 civ

You know, there's a good idea for a mod....

 

[AlpsStranger]

Whoah, what?? I loved Company of Heroes, what's the name of this new game you're referring to? (Sorry, off-topic, but I haven't heard of it.)

Yeah, this little abomination is called Company of Heroes Online. Pretty disgusting stuff.

You level up a commander of a certain doctrine. That's right, I mean level up *across* matches as in MMORPG style. On top of that you can buy better units, lower ammo cost grenades, etc for actual cash. It's pretty much a gigantic slap in the face to the idea of legitimate competition. Honing your hard won skills has been replaced with leveling up and buying better stuff with mom's credit card.

They have all kinds of crazy, imbalanced stuff from what I've seen and heard. While I was unable to play it personally for long I've heard reports of riflemen popping smoke, MG42's that could defend themselves from a flank, and some kind of improved forward barracks being set up within less than two minutes of game start.

The current writing on the wall is that we're getting free micro-transaction points instead of further patching for actual CoH. http://www.gamereplays.org/community/index.php?showtopic=662483

 

[GambleFish]

Yep. The sunshine patrol doesn't seem to understand that though. The sky is always blue there.

You know, it's not like every person who likes Civ 5 thinks it is a flawless masterpiece. A lot of reasonable people like the game but at the same time understand that it has issues. Making it seem like it's a black and white issue is a disservice to your intelligence and the intelligence of the people who disagree with you.

I can understand your frustration for sure, I just want to point out that there's no necessarily better argument to make. People blindly worship civ 5, people blindly lash out against civ 5. The crazies are on both sides!

 

[PickledDictator]

You know, it's not like every person who likes Civ 5 thinks it is a flawless masterpiece. A lot of reasonable people like the game but at the same time understand that it has issues. Making it seem like it's a black and white issue is a disservice to your intelligence and the intellgience of the people who disagree with you.

I can understand your frustration for sure, I just want to point out that there's no necessarily better argument to make. People blindly worship civ 5, people blindly lash out against civ 5. The crazies are on both sides!

That is indeed a fair point to make. Fanatics on a civfanatic site...who would have thought lol.

however, many great concepts in other games (not civ) were just that, great concepts with poor implementation.

go down memory road with games you like or dislike for whatever reason and you soon see a pattern :

I really like game X but the AI was so bad it was unplayable
I really liked game Y but the game was imbalanced etc etc...

see where I am going? People stop playing those games b/c after the "new" factor wears off, your left with a game that makes you feel incomplete.

both sides say there are issues with the game, that in a nutshell tells you the designers "missed the boat". These issues are very similar, bad ai, imbalance, exploits ect

the rest is irrelevant, the ai is garbage.

If a patch can fix poor programming and implementation of good ideas I am all for it. However, if this industry has told us anything with its history, many great concepts do not make for great gameplay and frequently do not get fixed.

 

[Jharii]

However, if this industry has told us anything with its history, many great concepts do not make for great gameplay and frequently do not get fixed.

However, if this industry has told us anything with its history, many great concepts do make for great gameplay and frequently do get fixed.


Without the AI being competent, it is nary impossible to balance the game unless the focus is 100% completely multiplayer, which has never been Civilization's priority.

 

[tom2050]

1. This site is called "Civfanatics", not "Civcasuals".

1. 
   
   It may change to CivCasuals.com (CCC) quickly if Firaxis continues to head towards the casual audience and dumps all the fans of the past.
   
   

   It's also not called "civcomplaints.com." Save your drama for your mama, or at least write a letter to Firaxis in lieu of crapping up the forum.

   
   Actually, it should be renamed to CivComplaints.com before they rename the site to CivCasuals.com because if they head the business model towards casual gamers (which they obviously trying to do to some extent), the dedicated fan base will without a doubt not like it one bit if they don't make sure to keep these fans happy as well.
   
   They in essence, just 'pulled the rug out from under our feet' with no warning.

 

[eviltypeguy]

So the actual script and gameplay bugs aren't present on your system? The Great Wall actually causes units to slow down and you don't get the trade bugs? Amazing

The great wall does slow units down -- I hit that last night when that little rat Napoleon built one while I was attacking.

The catch is that there's a bug in the description that doesn't mention that it goes obsolete once you hit metallurgy (as another poster reported).

 

[PickledDictator]

However, if this industry has told us anything with its history, many great concepts do make for great gameplay and frequently do get fixed.


Without the AI being competent, it is nary impossible to balance the game unless the focus is 100% completely multiplayer, which has never been Civilization's priority.

Exceptions are made where a company is able to fix what they created, but the truth is, its not usually the case. More often than not, the games are just shelved for the next release and designers try to learn from their flaws.

There is a difference b/w tweaking a horse movements by one and rewriting the entire code for a crappy AI. I know those are extremes, but this is the point were both making.

If 1upt is a great concept, which I think most will agree it is, but the AI programmed the way it is cannot use it properly (as is the case here) then the concept is flawed and should have been caught PRE RELEASE.

 

[AlpsStranger]

The great wall does slow units down -- I hit that last night when that little rat Napoleon built one while I was attacking.

The catch is that there's a bug in the description that doesn't mention that it goes obsolete once you hit metallurgy (as another poster reported).

Oh... interesting. Thanks for the information. I didn't realize that's what was going on. I appreciate you pointing this out.

 

[Jharii]

Exceptions are made where a company is able to fix what they created, but the truth is, its not usually the case. More often than not, the games are just shelved for the next release and designers try to learn from their flaws.

There is a difference b/w tweaking a horse movements by one and rewriting the entire code for a crappy AI. I know those are extremes, but this is the point were both making.

If 1upt is a great concept, which I think most will agree it is, but the AI programmed the way it is cannot use it properly (as is the case here) then the concept is flawed and should have been caught PRE RELEASE.

It's much easier to make a tool than to be a craftsman. I.e. it's much easier to incorporate a solid mechanic into a game than it is to program an AI to use it. Again, I think many of CiV's issues will be resolved when the AI is improved upon. Currently, it feels like a 5 year old child, just moving things around the game board because it's cool to. Horsey neat! The 5 year old doesn't know it's strategic benefits, he/she just likes making whinney noises.

The more complexity that you introduce into a game, you increase the complexity that is needed for the AI immensely, even exponentially. This leads me to believe that CiV has the *potential* to be a *very* complex game. It's just too hard to tell at this stage since we're still playing against 5 year olds.

What they need is to code a memetic AI to play CiV, that *learns* how to play CiV as it plays, and improves along the way. That learns from what it does, as well as from what human players do.

 

[AlpsStranger]

It may change to CivCasuals.com (CCC) quickly if Firaxis continues to head towards the casual audience and dumps all the fans of the past.



Actually, it should be renamed to CivComplaints.com before they rename the site to CivCasuals.com because if they head the business model towards casual gamers (which they obviously trying to do to some extent), the dedicated fan base will without a doubt not like it one bit if they don't make sure to keep these fans happy as well.

They in essence, just 'pulled the rug out from under our feet' with no warning.

Yes, but what is the point? Are you all going to be logging into Civ5 General Discussions 6 months from now necroing the same '[POLL]Worst Game Ever or Sin Against God?' threads?

At what point will the dissatisfied move on?

 

[C~G]

"Currently, it feels like a 5 year old child, just moving things around the game board because it's cool to. Horsey neat! The 5 year old doesn't know it's strategic benefits, he/she just likes making whinney noises."

That's actually almost the exact way how my friend described the whole experience with Civ V thus far...

What puzzles me how some view this kind of "regression" of game as a good thing?

That description also reminds me of... (oh not the below comment though)

"

Yes, but what is the point? Are you all going to be logging into Civ5 General Discussions 6 months from now necroing the same '[POLL]Worst Game Ever or Sin Against God?' threads?

At what point will the dissatisfied move on?

Sir...there might be nothing to move on but more of move back to

The point is to make enough noise that something is done regarding future products.

 

[HiroHito]

I bought the game because I was confident in their ability to improve upon Civ IV, they delivered a half baked, incomplete, bug ridden product and now they are trying to sell us DLC's for 5 $ a civ (yeah FIVE bucks). I'm not angry but utterly disappointed, and it's my right.

 

[AlpsStranger]

"Sir...there might be nothing to move on but more of move back to

The point is to make enough noise that something is done regarding future products.

So that's why you flooded the inbox at 2K/Firaxis instead of crapping up the forums?

No, the point is to annoy and belittle people that aren't sufficiently disdainful of Civilization 5. Your camp may claim that isn't their goal, but their actions betray them. Your target is squarely your fellow gamers and not those who developed the game.

 

[SuperJay]

At what point will the dissatisfied move on?

Move on? MOVE ON?!?

You're not a true Civ fan if you EVER MOVE ON. Never forgive. NEVER forget.

(This humorous parody was brought to you by the letter J and the number 42.)

 

[Thormodr]

"Currently, it feels like a 5 year old child, just moving things around the game board because it's cool to. Horsey neat! The 5 year old doesn't know it's strategic benefits, he/she just likes making whinney noises."

That's actually almost the exact way how my friend described the whole experience with Civ V thus far...

What puzzles me how some view this kind of "regression" of game as a good thing?

That description also reminds me of...

"Sir...there might be nothing to move on but more of move back to

The point is to make enough noise that something is done regarding future products.

Yep. Shafer 5: Toys for boys is not acceptable to discerning gamers that have much higher standards.

We expect and deserve much more than a game designed for the casual gamer/mass market/ease into Civ from Civ Rev crowd.

Settling for this crapola just vindicates what Firaxis and 2K Games have done.