Why does the AI struggle so much on water maps?

[Aaron90495]

I recently booted up my first Archipelago map in a while (Small, Epic, Deity). I usually struggle mightily with Deity - I've won twice, but both were tough Science Victories that came down to the wire. However, even before I started steamrolling the naval AI, I still did far better than I usually do on land maps.

I know a lot of people talk about the AI's naval ineptitude, which is certainly true, but why does the AI play worse in general - economically, scientifically, etc. - on water maps?

 

[nanomage]

It can't spam cities, it doesn't beeline Compass and Navigation, it builds land units, water maps lack production.

 

[Aaron90495]

It can't spam cities, it doesn't beeline Compass and Navigation, it builds land units, water maps lack production.

I'm surprised Firaxis didn't adjust the AI tech path for water maps. I think they can spam cities, but they definitely can't do it as effectively.

 

[pilot00]

It can't spam cities, it doesn't beeline Compass and Navigation, it builds land units, water maps lack production.

These. In essence water maps deprive it of its cheating boosts when you play in higher levels. Also it cannot control fleets for jack.

 

[Aaron90495]

These. In essence water maps deprive it of its cheating boosts when you play in higher levels. Also it cannot control fleets for jack.

I understand the AI's teching problems on water maps, but everyone is limited in production. How does that hurt the AI more than the human?

 

[Cahillicus]

Also it cannot control fleets for jack.

They can't control their army for jack. The AI will only attack if they are certain they will win. That means that they can't plan in the long run. But sometimes, they're just plain stupid.

 

[BrokTheFanatic]

They just do odd stuff with their ships. I think they could be adjusted to work in a simple yet effective way since some ships can take cities now. That does happen, they sometiems manage to get many ships near a city of mine and work it, but they make a number of what seem to be fixable mistakes. The first is how the bring land units in but within city firing range, they should be programmed to avoid that which doesn't seem that hard land units by the city or up to 2-4 hexes away but never leave unit ships within city firing range without proper cover (ship on top of them).

It could work, they really spam ships sometimes and without terrain to slow/provide cover, the AI should be able to swarm a player's fleet with sheer numbers.

And like others have said, the AI paths are very land oriented. It is why I play Pangea for the most part. I like island maps but the AI is just so wonky on em.

 

[Traejun]

It can't spam cities...

This. With the exception of a few civs, it seems the AI's default position is to spam cities until there is literally no more space or they can't do it anymore (which can be for a number of reasons).

I'm in the middle of a game right now (Spain, Deity, Pangaea, Small, Epic) - I've been at war with the Netherlands for ~30 turns. I've already taken 2 of his cities and am going to grab another (with Mr. Sinai in its borders), yet he's still trying to settle new cities. Including sending an unescorted settler through my territory to reach a small open space with a small iron deposit. It's plain ******ed.

 

[Polisurgist]

I understand the AI's teching problems on water maps, but everyone is limited in production. How does that hurt the AI more than the human?

People are better at evaluating the potential in a starting position, while the AI will more or less found its capital where it has resources and then spam cities as close as it can spreading out from there.

We're also better at doing more with less; we know when to stop building units and what buildings to build, while the AI is like a kid in a candy store.

 

[Justice1337]

I understand the AI's teching problems on water maps, but everyone is limited in production. How does that hurt the AI more than the human?

The AI gets flat, percent bonuses to tech, production, etc. These bonuses aren't malleable. They are the same in every city, for every point of production, beaker, and so on. In short, the AI grows by getting more stuff. It can't grow by directing available resources to narrower ends. That's what the Human does.

So basically, maps that give the AI a larger number of cities and more stuff will lead to harder AI. Meanwhile, a human player is much better at realizing, hey, there's space for 3 cities on this Island. My capital is the only one that can work these double Stone tiles. These others have mainly Fish nearby, and I'll have to settle for priority buildings there because others will come too late. And I need to rely on production in my Captial for the invasion force I need.

For example, Human will build the NC early, then beeline some tech, then build what the tech enables and execute mission. Little resources are wasted on anything not having to do with that mission. So the human is able to put the rewards from that mission to use much earlier. By contrast, the AI will expand randomly, then decide to build the NC after the hammer costs have escalated and the Empire's Science is coming from other sources. Then it will wander into Chemistry, for example, 20% later than it should've. The result is that the benefit of an extra hammer per Mines via Chemistry is cut. Also, the AI might build 20 units and then only effectively engage with 10, and the hammers spent on the extra units go to waste. A human would have built 10 units, then built something like Workshops, then returned to building units only in the event that the first 10 didn't do their job.

 

[mintcandy]

Let's not forget about how horrific the AI is for amphibious landings.

I can't even count the number of times I've given commands to my own units to land on empty uncontested beaches in a couple of turns, and the resultant AI will struggle to get those units onto the beach and will consequently have those units just aimlessly waffling around in the sea until I manually control them again.

 

[Polisurgist]

Let's not forget about how horrific the AI is for amphibious landings.

I can't even count the number of times I've given commands to my own units to land on empty uncontested beaches in a couple of turns, and the resultant AI will struggle to get those units onto the beach and will consequently have those units just aimlessly waffling around in the sea until I manually control them again.

I feel like this was greatly improved with G&K (or a patch that came around the same time).

 

[joncnunn]

AI actually does better on Large Island than Archipelago; the reason is that there is more likelyhood of being able to expand overseas with Compass on Large Island than Archipelago. (landmasses somewhat closer)

But the main source of AI problems colonizing overseas is that it doesn't escort the settlers going across the ocean and instead ends up with their settlers landing only to be captured by the local barbarians.