Why is Korea not in Civ 5?

[GigaNerd]

honestly, i think Korean are very tough nation since they can survive between china and japan.

Toughness is a plus!

 

[bonafide11]

I think Civfanatics should require a limit of posts before one can create a new thread. This would get rid of the spam and prevent people from signing up for the sole purpose of creating a thread of "why is <my country> not in Civ?!" Maybe if they were required to post ten times or so before creating a thread, they'd see how annoying these threads are and they'd change their mind before doing so.

By the way, I didn't vote since none of these options represent my opinion.

 

[GigaNerd]

I think Civfanatics should require a limit of posts before one can create a new thread. This would get rid of the spam and prevent people from signing up for the sole purpose of creating a thread of "why is <my country> not in Civ?!" Maybe if they were required to post ten times or so before creating a thread, they'd see how annoying these threads are and they'd change their mind before doing so.

I'm not so sure. Originally, I created my account for the sole purpose of asking how to add custom soundtracks to my Civ IV game. I'm pretty sure a large number of our members sign up for similar, one-shot reasons.

A req for the entire site?

However, a req for the Civ V section sounds reasonable!

 

[Evie]

Korea is a great civilization that doubtless deserves included in civilization.

HOWEVER, with only 18 civs in the base game, and the necessity of making sure that you have both a good regional spread (for flavor) and that the Great Powers of history are (mostly) represented among that regional spread.

In the end, Korea loses out to Japan and China on the ground that Korea never was a World Power while both China and Japan are or have been, and loses out to Siam on the ground that where Korea would be the third East Asian nation, Siam represents the rather unique South-East Asian sphere instead.

Which only means, of course, that Korea should be on the very top of the list for inclusion in the first expansion, along with Spain.

 

[tifa9292]

thanks for the support
i guess korea is not that well known around the world so i will tell you some korean achievenents:
taekwando
mp3 player
turtle ships
hangul
a lot of japanese and the royal household are descendents of korea and their culture came fromkorea

i understand i will check back when the expansion with korea is out some time
maybe there can be an asian civ pack with the other major asian civilizations (vietnamese, cantonese etc) that did not make it

 

[Chinese American]

Biggest military mean squat if they have no experience or are under equipped. If a real war were to break out, I'd put my money on China and USA. USA might not have many active and reserves at any one time, but think about their experienced ex-military who would volunteer in a heartbeat to defend their nation. China could sneeze and blow away tiny Korea. China and USA have a sizable population that if they enforced a draft like Korea would easily overwhelm them.

If you have to justify why your 'civ' should be included for vanilla, then it probably doesn't deserve a spot.

 

[bonafide11]

thanks for the support
i guess korea is not that well known around the world so i will tell you some korean achievenents:
taekwando
mp3 player
turtle ships
hangul
a lot of japanese and the royal household are descendents of korea and their culture came fromkorea

i understand i will check back when the expansion with korea is out some time
maybe there can be an asian civ pack with the other major asian civilizations (vietnamese, cantonese etc) that did not make it

MP3 players? Well, I'm convinced that is one of the most important 18 civilizations in world history, if not the most important. Let's take out China and Rome to make room for Korea.

All kidding aside, I wouldn't mind if Korea made an expansion pack, but put aside your nationalism for a minute and you can't seriously expect Korea to make the list of first 18 civilizations.

 

[ShakaZulu28]

As long as the Korean AI (of Wang Kon) is as dumb as he is in Civ4, I hope that there would be no Korean civilization ever in Civ5.

 

[Thormodr]

@OP:


Throughout the entire series, Korea has never been in a Vanilla copy of the game, yet they arrive in the expansions! Ever heard of Play the World? How about Warlords?

Be patient, man! Don't complain until after they release the expansions!



@Those who underestimate Korea


Let me give you reasons for including Korea:

-Throughout history, Korea has been the landbridge between China and Japan. (I'm not talking about geography) A few centuries after Year 0, Korea adopted Buddhism and the Chinese writing system, which they later passed on to Japan. Japan owes a big part of its culture to Korea, whether they like it or not!​

-Technologically, these guys rock. They invented the printing press and inscribed the entire Tripitaka onto 81,340 wooden blocks before 1300 AD!!! And don't forget about these babies! ​

Spoiler :

-You need leaders? I've got leaders! Wang Kon, Sejong the Great, Yi Seong-gye, Taejo, Queen Min, and Emperor Gojong would be my initial choices.​

Incorrect. Korea most certainly did not invent the printing press. China has that honour. Koreans did improve upon it though. They had the world's first metal printing press.

Queen Min was a horrible leader who was hated by her own people and especially her own army who she conveniently forgot to pay from time to time. She is only beloved in the Koreas nowadays because she was killed by the Japanese and Korean anti royalists. (a tag team effort).

 

[Thormodr]

I ain't imagining this Wikipedia article!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gojoseon

I think the most important line in this Wikipedia article is here:

Dangun Wanggeom is the legendary founder of Korea. The oldest existing record of this founding myth appears in the Samguk Yusa, a 13th-century collection of legends and stories. A similar account is found in Jewang Ungi.

A man who descended from heaven, had sex with a bear and founded the Korean nation?

 

[Thormodr]

thanks for the support
i guess korea is not that well known around the world so i will tell you some korean achievenents:
taekwando
mp3 player
turtle ships
hangul
a lot of japanese and the royal household are descendents of korea and their culture came fromkorea

i understand i will check back when the expansion with korea is out some time
maybe there can be an asian civ pack with the other major asian civilizations (vietnamese, cantonese etc) that did not make it

Taewondo is a fairly recent invention from around 1950. It is based in large part off of Judo. Hardly noteworthy and definitely not worthy of being an Olympic sport.

Hangul was effectively borrowed from the Mongols who had a script invented for them from Tibetan Monks. Koreans got the idea from the time when the Mongols ruled over them for well over a century. Hangul was underused and looked down upon by the parasitic nobility (who much preferred the Chinese script) until the 20th century.

Also, Korea certainly acted as a middleman in transmitting culture from China to Japan. To say that Japan's culture came from Korea is disingenuous. Certainly they had some influence but in large part it was Chinese culture plus Japan's development of their own culture as a result of being an island nation. Korean nationalism likes to blow this out of proportion and Japanese nationalism likes to diminish this.

Korea is an interesting civilization and should be included in an expansion pack but not in the vanilla version.

 

[Varelse]

Dude, biggest combined military in the world? Are you kidding me? I think someone did a study once that if you combined the rest of the world's armies and compared it to the United States, the United State's armed forces was still larger... Probably not the case but staggering to think about if true...

Ah I think you have that wrong. America has the best soldiers not the most.

 

[Thormodr]

As long as the Korean AI (of Wang Kon) is as dumb as he is in Civ4, I hope that there would be no Korean civilization ever in Civ5.

If the AI is as dumb as previous versions for all civlizations then we'd have no civilizations at all.

 

[Fluke Bit]

Anatomy of "Why is _____ not a Civ" threads.

Page 1: OP writing about the Civ in question, citing the feeble inconsequential achievements they have made throughout history.

Page 1-3: Members of sound mind acknowledging the merits of the civilization, but stating that only a limited number of Civs can be included, and this one isn't big enough to be considered.

Page 2-6: OP and members of the Civ working up a nationalistic rage, insisting the Civ is worthy of the game.

Page 2 - 7: Facetious and sarcastic posts related to the civ.

Page 5 - 10: OP and members of the Civ respond, flaming begins. nationalistic rage persists. OP may or may not accuse others of racism or demand bans.

Page 4: Dale makes a Sealand joke.

Page 6 - 15: Flame wars are in full force. Rational members leave thread. Activity in the thread is completely driven by the OP and the members of the civilization in question, those who are locked into heated debate about its merits compared to China or Egypt, and posters who are just making joke comments.

Page 16: Moderator has locked this thread.

LOL! funny but I see it a bit differently...

Page 1: Troll opens new thread feigning rage that some random Civ is not in.

Page 1-3: Crowd takes the bait. Troll-feeding begins.

Page 4 (and passim): "I demand Andorra!" dumb jokes pop up everywhere. Counter-trolling begins.

page 5-9: Miscellaneous stuff no one bothers to read.

Page 10-14: A veteran and respectable forum user makes a wild claim which is immediately refuted. Pseudo-historical debate degenerates into flame.

Page 15-16: The situation becomes increasingly embarrassing for veteran forum users, who then demand that the thread is locked.

Page 16: Merciful moderator satisfies the request.

 

[cephalo]

I lived for six years in South Korea and it always makes me chuckle when I hear about Korea's "5000 years of history". According to Korean records, Tangun descended from heaven, had sex with a bear and founded the Korean race in 2333 BC. So even if we believe in this mythological beginning, it's still only 4343 years.

Any civilization that has it's founders decended from animals can definately call itself a civilization! That's old school tradition right there!

 

[Lone Wolf]

THE GLORIOUS NATION OF KOREA should be included, since TWO GREATEST MEN IN HISTORY OF MANKIND - ETERNAL PRESIDENT KIM IL SUNG and SUPREME LEADER KIM JONG IL belong to this GLORIOUS nation! All progressive mankind feels great love for these two magnificient people.

 

[Thormodr]

THE GLORIOUS NATION OF KOREA should be included, since TWO GREATEST MEN IN HISTORY OF MANKIND - ETERNAL PRESIDENT KIM IL SUNG and SUPREME LEADER KIM JONG IL belong to this GLORIOUS nation! All progressive mankind feels great love for these two magnificient people.

KJI is superhuman.

According to North Korea’s crack research department, the diminutive dictator shot a 34 his first time golfing. And no, not at mini-golf, at a championship, par-72 course. He drilled home 11 holes-in-one in his miraculous 34-under round and reportedly still shoots in the low 50s, though at 60-plus years of age, his holes in ones are down to four or five a round.

http://www.worldgolf.com/blogs/william.wolfrum/2005/10/04/a_golfing_debut_with_11_aces_makes_kim_j

 

[cybrxkhan]

Korea would be, after China, Japan, and Mongolia, the next Asian civilization I would include. I don't think they are necessary in the vanilla game, only if because there is so little space available (only 18 slots).

Korea has some rather spectacular accomplishments, including a reasonably impressive military record and a number of scientific advances. However, then again, so did many other nations. China is always in before Korea for the obvious reason that it is "the" Eastern Civilization, just like how Rome and Greece are "the" Western Civilization. Japan is in because of the marketable appeal (everybody loves the stereotypes of samurai and ninjas), as well as the fact that it's the biggest market for Civilization in Asia, and the fact that it has played a prominent role in modern world history. Mongolia is in mainly because of the need for a token nomadic-barbarian civ, as well as the fame of Genghis Khan as a bloodthirsty conqueror (though he wasn't a one-sided barbarian killer as everyone thinks...), but the Mongolians also were able to carve out the largest continuous land empire in history, so that's something.

So, my point again - Korea would be good for an expansion, as China, Japan, and Mongolia take precedence over it in my opinion.

 

[Willem]

First Poland, then Spain, now Korea.

You forgot Finno-ugric.

 

[Ahriman]

KJI is superhuman.

Can he shoot laser beams out of his eyes? If he can't shoot laser beams out of his eyes, then I vote no.

Korea would be, after China, Japan, and Mongolia, the next Asian civilization I would include.

<cough> India, Persia <cough>