Winning The Early Game - Losing The Late Game

[__stdcay]

Hi,

no clue, if this has already been discussed.
If yes, please guide me to the source.
If not: Here we go:

I certainly don't understand the game as the pros do.
So I don't understand how I can always lose as a Prince when I'm always up at least 200 points after the first 200, 300, even 500 turns.
And then everything, just everything just seems to turn against me.
The points are just dwindling down to the second.

I know it's all bots after all. But I don't get it. Clearly, I'm doing something wrong in mid and/or late game.

Any advice appreciated.

 

[AcaMetis]

Broadly speaking, the score total isn't a strong indicator of how well a civilization is doing. Deity players regularly stay at the bottom of the scoreboard, sometimes by as much as half the score of the next lowest AI, and still win in the end. Score is a combination of tech, pop, land, wonders and a few other things, but it doesn't - for example - measure having an army of fifty cavalry on the board while everyone else has longbows and is at least three techs off of getting rifles. It goes without saying that in that case the civ is doing significantly better than their score indicates.

In absence of screenshots showing your empire management, the most likely cause for this eventual decline on a level as low as Prince is either not understanding the fundamentals of empire management, or lacking a cohesive plan of action. On Prince you should be running circles around the AI tech-wise at basically at every point, and either continuing to snowball that advantage ahead of them or culminating that advantage into something decisive to win the game - see aforementioned fifty cavalry facing longbows example, although of course the exact number of units you'll need will vary wildly from game to game.

The best way to diagnose what's going wrong is to post screenshots or, even better, play a shadow game with forum members advising you at every critical step. Which, early game, is every few turns, as early turns are critical to get the snowball rolling.

 

[sampsa]

Yep, totally ignore score. Usually if things go sour it's because your play didn't have a direction in the first place. If you haven't been around here much I can almost guarantee your early game is not very strong, despite getting ahead in score vs prince AI...

 

[civac]

I disagree strongly. Score is quite good an indicator of how well you are doing from the midgame forward. Early game it can be skewed due to points from wonders and culture.

As for OPs problem I second the call for more info (screenshots). It is pretty normal to have empire size stagnate for a while once all available land is filled up and you are not ready to kill your neighbours right then and there. However, technolocigal progress, city growth and key wonders should increase you score further and allow you to stay ahead. Is it possible the AI have more cities than you after the landgrab phase? In that case, yes, they would start to catch up at some point.

 

[Nick723]

A lot of later game drift can come from a lack of strategic clarity and focus.

How’re you trying to win? What are the immediate goals that help you get there?

Also as you go through the game more options present themselves (eg things to build in a city) and so although the individual choices matter less by this point, it’s easier to drift or go astray.

 

[sampsa]

Score is quite good an indicator of how well you are doing from the midgame forward

Well. If you are number one in score things are going well, but you definitely don't need to be in the top half. I've had plenty of games that I consider to be technically won even if I'm close to last in score. All you need is a plan.

 

[civac]

Well. If you are number one in score things are going well, but you definitely don't need to be in the top half. I've had plenty of games that I consider to be technically won even if I'm close to last in score. All you need is a plan.

Certainly. The reason for this is that you are vastly better at Civ than the AI. Something a scoring system cannot and should not take into account. If there was another Sampsa playing the score leader in your game your situation would likely be objectively hopeless.

 

[sampsa]

Certainly. The reason for this is that you are vastly better at Civ than the AI. Something a scoring system cannot and should not take into account. If there was another Sampsa playing the score leader in your game your situation would likely be objectively hopeless.

Yes. I sensed your comment is based on your experience in multiplayer. For me, the game is not symmetrical at all, hence there is no real reason to ever even look at the score. I view city count as much more important, for example.

 

[civac]

Fair enough. Indeed it's what I have found in MP that score is surprisingly accurate at showing relatie strength of the various factions. I see what you are saying though. If you are way behind in SP but have a bunch of GS and GM lined up for bulbs and cuirassiers upgrades you can have the game well in hand. Regardless, I think the OPs intuition that he should not be overtaken in points and that there is some flaw in his/her play is likely correct.

 

[konata_LS]

when I'm always up at least 200 points after the first 200, 300, even 500 turns.

You're asking advice of the game at Epic or Marathon speed, I guess? because if you play at normal speed and you're still the first in score on T500, you would have won a Time victory.

As people suggested, posting some screenshots would let you get more precise solutions to your problems.

Having a low score or even being the last one in score actually help the human player, especially on higher levels. Why? because on immortal or deity, the human player usually has the lowest score in the first 50 or 100 turns. If the human players and some AIs all appear in the bottom half of the scoreboard, the tech trading between these AIs and the human player is not affected by WFYABTA limits. This mechanics give the human player the chance to trade and catch up in techs. Not to mention the advantages from hidden diplomacy modifier bonus like "developing nations should work together to catch up" or "your small civilization is no threat to us".