Worst Civ in the Game??

[Redaxe]

I wouldn't underrate Denmark.

Now that they get Beserkers at Metal Casting means that you can have the best army in the game for a period of time. The timing works well too.

You can use the ancient & classical era's to score some wonders, get your cities going then build a Heroic Epic. Once you get your beserkers you can easily take a neighbour out. That gives you access to a lot of resources & space which puts you in a nice position to go toward a Science Victory or continue in domination. Berserkers also have 3 movement points so they essentially negate the Great Wall Wonder so really Denmark can be quite dangerous.

If i was to say worst I'd probably go India. The UA doesn't seem appealing and really hurts if you want to plop some early cities down. If you play Diety for instance you need to get your 3-4 cities very quickly and who wants to be hit with an extra 6-9 unhappiness at turn 40 when you're rushing to settle to prevent the AI forward settling you. Also the intention of the UA is for you to play tall but tall civs rarely have happiness issues as Monarchy really mitigates it. The early wide liberty games is what makes unhappiness a problem.

There other uniques don't really do much. Sure the Mughal Fort provides some extra culture but India prevents you from building many cities to really benefit from it.
Chariot Archer I guess is ok for some early defense but that all. You can't really conquer with chariot archers because the moment you start taking cities you get walloped by unhappiness.

 

[beetle]

Lighthouses add 1 food to coast tiles, 1 production to resources, and a further 1 food to fight.

Thanks for correcting my correction!

 

[killmeplease]

Ya but if the city is close I never really feel like an instant harbor is that great. I often start building my roads ahead of time anyway. Idk I never feel rushed with my workers as I usually build a decent amount of them. Same with gold in I feel the instant connection isn't that valuable. Idk I feel like their are 10+ civs more powerful for a Liberty start but that's based on my playstyles and experiences.

so it seems you're building too many workers thus not playing optimally.
as carthage you can build less workers, less roads, and have more gold and stuff from city connections faster (messenger of the gods and meritocracy happiness). for the liberty maintenance is one of the worst problems, playing as carthage you dont have it as you get ~5 gold per city saved.

maybe, maintenance isnt an issue if you play deity though, as gold comes from cheesy ai trades. but in mp or non-exploit play the carthage's ua is very solid.

 

[Redaxe]

so it seems you're building too many workers thus not playing optimally.
as carthage you can build less workers, less roads, and have more gold and stuff from city connections faster (messenger of the gods and meritocracy happiness). for the liberty maintenance is one of the worst problems, playing as carthage you dont have it as you get ~5 gold per city saved.

maybe, maintenance isnt an issue if you play deity though, as gold comes from cheesy ai trades. but in mp or non-exploit play the carthage's ua is very solid.

Cathage is quite a strong civ if you're going to play a seafaring game based on a strong economy.
It is correct that is probably the strongest civ that benefits from Liberty & also the Exploration tree. You can quite happily found cities as Carthage in the mid game and with the benefit of instant city connections via Harbors, extra happiness & gold makes it quite versatile. The free harbor saves 2 or 3 gold on upkeep, minimises the need for roads (saving more gold, requiring less workers). This helps a lot on Liberty where early gold is a problem. The happiness bonus to your harbor and instant city connections from Liberty & Exploration means you can start plenty of new coastal cities throughout the game.
Basically Carthage shines the most on large sized Fractal, small continents plus, small continents & archipalaego maps. A standard size map isn't going to give you as much advantage.

 

[Dr. D]

I made sure I said "usually" instead of "only".....however by the time a proper navy comes into play can't you just use Privateers to capture other ships? Maybe Ottoman Privateers should have some added bonus, like increased chance to capture so that part of their UA is not made redundant by a single unit.

Anyways, what would you say is the most efficient use of the Prize Ships ability? Capturing Battleships with Destroyers would be nice, however by the time I tech to Battleships I'm usually in control of the seas anyway.

The AI loves making caravels, and that's the most frequently captured ship when I play the Ottomans. Capturing galleasses in order to have a head start on your fleet of frigates is also very helpful, although it can be tricky to capture a galleass outside of bombarding territory of an enemy city and thus have it survive the turn. I like to have cash on hand in the Renaissance for rushing frigates, and upgrading galleasses saves a good bit of gold.

Ironclads taking frigates is another helper. Again, like you said, you may be in control of the seas at this point but with the Ottomans, you're in even more control... and more control is a good thing.

Aside from domination, it's very helpful to build a trireme in the early going and know you'll take a number of barbarian ships as you protect your naval cargo ships. It's a small benefit, but a benefit nonetheless.

 

[LordBalkoth]

Thanks for correcting my correction!

And by "fight" I meant "fish."

Basically the same thing, right?

 

[beetle]

But do you really have luck capturing Sea Beggars and SOL though? My previous efforts have failed miserably. The Ottomans have nothing special for that era.

Answering my own question from subsequent posts: I think I should try Ottomans again, making a stronger beeline towards Steam. Ironclads with prize should be monsters.

 

[IkM]

Answering my own question from subsequent posts: I think I should try Ottomans again, making a stronger beeline towards Steam. Ironclads with prize should be monsters.

Once you join the Sultan's Army, you'll never go back.

 

[Abraxis]

The Celts and Siam are the worst.Their UA are horrible.

The Celts are arguably the most powerful civ in the game.

 

[vivalamexico]

The Celts are arguably the most powerful civ in the game.

Um What?
Disagree with the post you quoted too, but....what?

 

[KingKong76]

Um What?
Disagree with the post you quoted too, but....what?

Religion spreading faster in easier in Emperor and lower levels, it makes them indeed really powerfull especialy in King and lower Level...

I would guess its what he meant...

Im not goog Immortal yet, and thats ONLY ONE of the reasons I can see... I usualy just realy on natural and few trade routes pressure to spread my religion, and in Immortal it dosent work anymore.... have to use a few well placed missionaries and prophet and spend time and effort... but if you dont have to do that, Celts are indeed. very powerfull...
Top tier? maybe not... you are right...

 

[Abraxis]

No, no I meant for Deity. A "[BNW] Best Civ in game?" thread came up so I posted my justification there. Might as well carry that discussion over there too.

 

[KingKong76]

No, no I meant for Deity. A "[BNW] Best Civ in game?" thread came up so I posted my justification there. Might as well carry that discussion over there too.

im interested in that... Ill take a look...

 

[DScruggy729]

America, Byzantines, Carthage, Celts, Denmark, Huns, Iroquois, Spain, and Sweden just suck for me. They're mostly awful civs that I haven't had much success with on Immortal/Deity.

To play against? Warmongers like Attila, Shaka, and Ashurbanipal, general douchebags like Alex, Gajah Mada (Always hates me) and Backstabbers like Suileman, Dido, and Napoleon (I've been backstabbed multiple times in the same game by him, and he will be friendly after a war)

 

[jlim201]

Gah, it causes cringes everytime someone dosent include the Iroquois when saying "Worst civs". The special parts of them equal to 0, if not worse. If someone gave me a civ with no uniques, no start bias etc., they would still be better than Iroquois.

UA- Nothing, unless you play on Boreal, (who does?)

UU- Maybe will save you in rare occurences, but WHO CARES about a bit of combat ability in Forests and no Iron. You dont even build Swordsmen that much.

UB- Not better in any way than the workshop, maybe even worse. Most cases, I would take a Worskhop over a Longhouse.

Its basically a generic civ, except slightly worse.

 

[TheGuineaPig]

I don't get anyone who says America is bottom-tier. They're not fantastic, but the tile-buying (and to a lesser extent +1 sight) is a bonus that is huge over the first 100 turns, and therefore is transformative for the game as a whole.

 

[tribefaninnc]

I don't get anyone who says America is bottom-tier. They're not fantastic, but the tile-buying (and to a lesser extent +1 sight) is a bonus that is huge over the first 100 turns, and therefore is transformative for the game as a whole.

Then why wouldn't Shoshone be 2x better? They get the extra tiles for free...

I want to like America, but honestly never do well with them.

 

[GreenofKnight45]

I wish America had an ability like
Arsenal of Democracy: 20%while at war
Also, I don't mean to but Sweden looks like a weak civ. I know others may play other ways, but like I'm giving a great person to a CS?
_____________________________
Live from under 20 feet of New England snow its The GreenofKnight Show!

 

[beetle]

..but like I'm giving a great person to a CS?

I know! Sounds crazy right? But I won my first game, first try at Deity, using Sweden and aiming for Diplo from the start. (None of my subsequent Deity games have been smooth, and now that I am aiming for SV, I rarely win.)

If you wage war constantly (not to get cities, just to war), you have more GG than you can really use. Build the Music Guild early and you will have a bunch of GM too. If you found, spread 3x with each GPr and save the last for a CS. So you can gift plenty of GP, with very minimal impact to the rest of your game. The only thing I really had to do differently was have a small group always fighting on the fringes, to keep the GG coming. Combat is easy if you are not trying to take cities!

90 points of influence sound weak on its face, but you only use that with friends -- so that is 60 turns of ally status on top of however you usually play. It works very well.

 

[TheGuineaPig]

Then why wouldn't Shoshone be 2x better? They get the extra tiles for free...

I want to like America, but honestly never do well with them.

The Shoshone are way better, but they're one of the very best. America is solidly mid-tier, is my point.