worst civs

[Roughly 6 Owls]

i bet i can beat you both on a duel setting pangea with EVERY civ.

of course if you wanna exploit horsemen rush alex is slightly better, but why the hell do you always wanna win deity games vs AI? thats kinda boring isnt it? i rather play a quite balanced game vs real opponents not vs a machine.

Again, this isn't the point of ranking the leaders. Anyone can win a game with any civ at the difficulty level they normally play at. Obviously the list is flawed, as there was an uproar about Gandhi being with Harun and Elizabeth, but if you want to take it as gospel and only play the top tier in multiplayer, go ahead.

Back to the discussion on Gandhi: I've never thought about going unhappiness positive, but I guess that opposed to a normal city, he does after 4 (?) pop. An interesting way of looking at it, and far more powerful than I gave it credit for. With Meritocracy and the FP, he goes happiness positive after 2 pop, no?

@charm3: GS's are the best great people currently. The only ones that even compare are GE's, and they are far harder to get. Getting two techs for one when you discover writing is very nice, and bonus GS throughout the game is a huge boost to tech. I haven't played them, but having a tech advantage at high levels is an awesome boost to power.

@basta: The one game I've played as the Chinese had a great general spawn after four barb camps. They're made for warring, and they do it extremely well. Not only that, but if you only need one GG, just pop the others for GAs. Paper Makers, unlike say... Mughal Forts are on base buildings that everyone is going to build anyway, and +4 commerce (+3, since it covers itself) is a pretty nice early game boost for every city ever. Since this list kind of ignores start bias, with an average start the Chinese have a far better boost to a domination victory than say, Harun Al-Rashid.

 

[Johnpecan]

Having tried them 3 times and had nothing but slow, attrition, falling-behind failure, I'd have to say China.

...

What fun! By late medieval you're so behind, with ridiculous build times, poor production and lagging techs and SPs, that you toss it in. Really I must be doing something terribly wrong but I just don't see why they're always high on everyone's list. Maybe at lower levels they're better but not at immortal.

You're doing something VERY wrong. Paper maker is very powerful, allowing you to define your economy.

Chu-ko-nu (sp) is very powerful and can upgrade into nice rifleman.

The GG is amazing.

Bottom line, China does very well immortal++.

 

[cman2010]

I dont see why germany is rated so low by most people, I know the ua is by chance but when it works it can pay off big time if you activly seek out barb camps then just wait and upgrade your warriors. Also as someone mentioned the panzer is great, and the landshank(sp?) is good as well.

 

[neilkaz]

You're doing something VERY wrong. Paper maker is very powerful, allowing you to define your economy.

Chu-ko-nu (sp) is very powerful and can upgrade into nice rifleman.

The GG is amazing.

Bottom line, China does very well immortal++.

I've played China lots (more than any other civ) on Emperor and Immortal so I feel qualified to comment.

If I had to win a game to save my life, China wouldn't be my first choice of civ, but they'd certainly be in my top 5 if not my top 3 or 4.

The UB is clearly the best in the game, IMHO. Imagine a library that gives a net of 3 free gpt !! I have far fewer gold issues when I play as Wu.

The 45% GG rocks and makes combat easier and more effective. Additional GG's can be used for GA's or on a different front.

The CKN, their UU is a nice unit during it's time frame and I find this dominant time frame is much longer on Emperor. On Immortal, the AI's often tech and build up so quickly, that your CKN's may be fighting riflemen and cavalry and artillery. That being said, a few of them with some supporting units and a GG can still be effective. But I've had good games on Immortal as Wu and never making a CKN. With horsemen getting a nerf in the patch, archer units like CKN's may be even more effective.

I don't find a poor starting location to be crippling and can expand into better ground with a few early new cities as usual. As for now, just make a few horses and go beat on some AI and get that GG and have fun as usual as with nearly any civ. Paper makers should be built quickly in all cities.

.. neilkaz ..

 

[neilkaz]

Hmm..re: Ghandi, clearly I haven't played him properly at all, as I'd have rated him as the worst civ, with America as second worst and Ottomans third worst.

I need to follow some of the advice here and try my own Immortal game as Ghandi.

.. neilkaz ..

 

[Civsassin]

IMO, there really aren't any bad civs in the game. There may be a bad civ for an individual, which is probably more related to play style than the civ being good or bad. I am playing on emperor through each one of the civs, and I find that each one has its own unique advantages that you can adjust your play style to leverage if you are able.

If you leave on the starting bias, you will get a map suited to the civ's unique abilities, and you can really experiment with it.

I don't typically play naval games, but I enjoyed playing Elizabeth and ruling the seas with her passive ability and UU.

I tried the Iroquois to learn how to leverage their UU, UB, and passive trait. It was an interesting game, and again, it was an enjoyable game.

I raked in gold with China and Arabia. I had a production powerhouse with Russia. I played violently with Songhai, razing as I proceeded and raking in the gold from their passive ability.

That's part of the fun of the game. Try different civs, different victory conditions and different tactics. As the game gets patch and balanced, it will change the dynamics, and allow you to try all over again. Learn this game well, and you will be ready for a new batch of civs, new features, new units, new buildings, new wonders, etc. in expansion packs.

Civ 5 is a great new addition to the series, and I really look forward the the future of the game.

 

[basta]

On Immortal, the AI's often tech and build up so quickly, that your CKN's may be fighting riflemen and cavalry and artillery.

I don't find a poor starting location to be crippling and can expand into better ground with a few early new cities as usual. As for now, just make a few horses and go beat on some AI and get that GG and have fun as usual as with nearly any civ. Paper makers should be built quickly in all cities.

That's exactly my experience re: the CKNs at immortal--too little, too late.

You always get a pretty drab grey-green and resource-poor map with Wu, not the lush greens of Alex or Napoleon. I think my start strategy just doesn't work with China; I like to do a city rush--building 5 cities asap (build 6 and you get multi-DoWs), plopping them near lux resources so they pay for themselves in happy faces, then building monument & library in most all of them before cranking out units when you hit longswordsmen for your first serious war. At immortal the AI just has too big a start advantage to even contemplate an earlier attack, at least how I play.

That said, China is just awful for this, even with the paper factory. Really it seems crippled compared to the other civs I've had success with.

 

[elthrasher]

That's exactly my experience re: the CKNs at immortal--too little, too late.

In my latest deity game, I was about to upgrade my CKNs around the time the AI was getting rifling. I basically have tech parity, but my rifles can attack twice, I get a +45% GG (three of them actually) and of course my tactics are about 75 billion times better.

My tech path is to get worker techs and Writing (get Writing the instant I'm able to work on a paper maker), while expanding. Get paper makers in while beelining Machinery. Now each town builds a CKN or two so I have about 10 of them when Rifling comes around.

My start this game was super hilly country with a massive mountain range blocking me from the other civs. This made any kind of early rush impossible, but also kept me safe while I expanded. I allied a maritime and had good production and an okay income despite not many trading posts. The paper makers really help with the economy. I haven't played China a lot so I can't speak to a bad start bias. This map would have been hard to play with another civ.

In any case, the +45% GG should be enough to keep China out of serious consideration of being one of the worst civs. If the above strategy doesn't suit you, go Honor and build horsemen.

 

[neilkaz]

In my latest deity game, I was about to upgrade my CKNs around the time the AI was getting rifling. I basically have tech parity, but my rifles can attack twice, I get a +45% GG (three of them actually) and of course my tactics are about 75 billion times better.

My tech path is to get worker techs and Writing (get Writing the instant I'm able to work on a paper maker), while expanding. Get paper makers in while beelining Machinery. Now each town builds a CKN or two so I have about 10 of them when Rifling comes around.

Please correct me if I am wrong as I may have missed something playing China, but I think CKNs can only attack once when upgraded to rifles.

Yeah, I also want writing and paper makers quickly. I've beelined to machinery on Emperor, but found quick horses to be stronger on Immortal, although I should try the machinery plan again depending on how much horsemen get nerfed.

thx .. neilkaz ..

 

[elthrasher]

Please correct me if I am wrong as I may have missed something playing China, but I think CKNs can only attack once when upgraded to rifles.

Consider yourself corrected. Upgraded CKNs get to attack twice, but only one attack per movement so if you move and attack, you can't attack again. Even better than that, your second "attack" can be movement, so this lets you move after attacking.

 

[Roughly 6 Owls]

I dont see why germany is rated so low by most people, I know the ua is by chance but when it works it can pay off big time if you activly seek out barb camps then just wait and upgrade your warriors. Also as someone mentioned the panzer is great, and the landshank(sp?) is good as well.

One of the things that annoys me most about Germany: Brutes don't upgrade into Landsknechts. The one game I played and Germany ended before I got iron working, so I don't know if they upgrade at all, but if they did upgrade into Landsknechts (even if through spears) then the German UA and UU would have awesome synergy.

IMO, there really aren't any bad civs in the game. There may be a bad civ for an individual, which is probably more related to play style than the civ being good or bad. I am playing on emperor through each one of the civs, and I find that each one has its own unique advantages that you can adjust your play style to leverage if you are able.

That's part of the fun of the game. Try different civs, different victory conditions and different tactics. As the game gets patch and balanced, it will change the dynamics, and allow you to try all over again. Learn this game well, and you will be ready for a new batch of civs, new features, new units, new buildings, new wonders, etc. in expansion packs.

Civ 5 is a great new addition to the series, and I really look forward the the future of the game.

This is a great way to look at it. My personal belief is that there are some civs that are better than others, but as you said, there really aren't any bad civs. Ultimately, none of them penalize you for choosing them. (I suppose Gandhi does until your pop. gets above a certain point.)

 

[neilkaz]

Consider yourself corrected. Upgraded CKNs get to attack twice, but only one attack per movement so if you move and attack, you can't attack again. Even better than that, your second "attack" can be movement, so this lets you move after attacking.

Hmm..I had missed that and it seems that I will have to try beelining machinery and cracking out a dozen of these guys next game. Thx.. neilkaz ..

 

[Abraxis]

Doesn't China also get GGs twice as quickly? I'm surprised no one mentioned using them for running golden ages.

 

[Yzman]

Does China even have a start bias? I see everyone mentioning them getting crappy starts with China but this is not the case for me... I also don't recall them having a start bias. Not all civs do.

 

[elthrasher]

Does China even have a start bias? I see everyone mentioning them getting crappy starts with China but this is not the case for me... I also don't recall them having a start bias. Not all civs do.

Apparently they don't.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=382261

 

[Sneaks]

Personal tier rankings:

1. China, India, France, Greece, Babylon
2. Songhai, Iroquois, Siam, Egypt, Arabia
3. Aztecs, Mongols, Rome, Persia, Russia
4. America, Japan, England
5. Ottomans, Germany

It should be noted that while I play a good deal of ICS at highest levels, I find culture/city building a more enjoyable victory route, thus Songhai being higher than where most would place it.

 

[Civsassin]

This is a great way to look at it. My personal belief is that there are some civs that are better than others, but as you said, there really aren't any bad civs. Ultimately, none of them penalize you for choosing them. (I suppose Gandhi does until your pop. gets above a certain point.)


Gandhi's passive ability is telling you to build fewer cities and grow them to massive populations. You don't need a large sprawling empire in Civ V. You can get away with any number of cities if you play the game properly for the situation.

 

[scytheavatar]

That's exactly my experience re: the CKNs at immortal--too little, too late.

You always get a pretty drab grey-green and resource-poor map with Wu, not the lush greens of Alex or Napoleon. I think my start strategy just doesn't work with China; I like to do a city rush--building 5 cities asap (build 6 and you get multi-DoWs), plopping them near lux resources so they pay for themselves in happy faces, then building monument & library in most all of them before cranking out units when you hit longswordsmen for your first serious war. At immortal the AI just has too big a start advantage to even contemplate an earlier attack, at least how I play.

That said, China is just awful for this, even with the paper factory. Really it seems crippled compared to the other civs I've had success with.

5 paper factories is already 20 gold per turn.... how could you not acknowledge the power that gives you? Plus the bonuses that China's GG gives to your longswordsmen?

 

[Roughly 6 Owls]

5 paper makers is technically +15 gold, since they each cost 1 maintenence anyway.