You can just block Rock Bands with your units.
- Thread starter Archon_Wing
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Boris Gudenuf
Deity
Right now, every 'Victory Mechanism' has a counter move:
Most basically, a Domination Victory is countered by building Military Units
A Religious Victory by counter Apostles, Gurus and Inquisitors
A Space/science Victory by sabotaging with Spies and building your own Science components faster.
So, logically, there should be a counter to Rock Bands, since GS has made them the One Stop Shop for Cultural Victory (which is another of the myriad examples of Obviously Untested Game Mechanics in Civ VI, but let that pass for now)
The question is, what should the Counter-Rock be?
In reality, it is usually some Government agency: such as the Russian police shutting down Pussy Riot or the US customs virtually banning at least one band from entering the USA because one member was caught with an ounce of marjuana 'back in the day' (late 1970s).
But, there's a good case for using Religious Units instead, because there really are no Government Units in the game other than the military ones, whereas there is a ready-made panoply of Religious Units already in the game and available to be 'stretched' into the Anti-Rock role.
A specific Rock-Band-Attacker function for, say, Inquisitors to be able to Smite the Heathen Guitarists would both reduce the totally OP cultural influence of Rock Bands and provide some really entertaining Graphics for the game.
I mean, who wouldn't want to see The Spanish Inquisition (you know the one I mean, wink, wink, nudge, nudge) and KISS in a smack-down?
Most basically, a Domination Victory is countered by building Military Units
A Religious Victory by counter Apostles, Gurus and Inquisitors
A Space/science Victory by sabotaging with Spies and building your own Science components faster.
So, logically, there should be a counter to Rock Bands, since GS has made them the One Stop Shop for Cultural Victory (which is another of the myriad examples of Obviously Untested Game Mechanics in Civ VI, but let that pass for now)
The question is, what should the Counter-Rock be?
In reality, it is usually some Government agency: such as the Russian police shutting down Pussy Riot or the US customs virtually banning at least one band from entering the USA because one member was caught with an ounce of marjuana 'back in the day' (late 1970s).
But, there's a good case for using Religious Units instead, because there really are no Government Units in the game other than the military ones, whereas there is a ready-made panoply of Religious Units already in the game and available to be 'stretched' into the Anti-Rock role.
A specific Rock-Band-Attacker function for, say, Inquisitors to be able to Smite the Heathen Guitarists would both reduce the totally OP cultural influence of Rock Bands and provide some really entertaining Graphics for the game.
I mean, who wouldn't want to see The Spanish Inquisition (you know the one I mean, wink, wink, nudge, nudge) and KISS in a smack-down?
Hans Castorp
Prince
I think Music Journalists would be the obvious counter to rock-bands. A couple of acid reviews will sort them right out. Also, you could build the special Confusing Basement city defence, to leave visiting rock-bands wandering lost round the venue, muttering 'Rock-and-roll!', and 'Hello Cleveland!'...
Sagax
Emperor
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I mean, if we follow this logic, then CV is already countered by earning more GWAMs, Stealing Great Works, and boosting your Culture output. Rock Bands are a finisher, but they aren’t winning CV on their own - especially with that built-in RNG.
Boris Gudenuf
Deity
I'll freely admit, I haven't played far enough to actually see a Rock Band in any game, and since I haven't played as far as the late Atomic Era in any game yet in 1800 hours of play, I'm not sure I ever will. But from what I've read, you can be grinding out 50 - 100 Tourism per turn, trudging towards a CV, and a single good Rock Band Roadie Trip nets you Thousands. I suggest that if that is 'normal' then all the Great Works in the game are no longer relevant or necessary for a CV: just strew the map with Rock Bands and 'Victory' falls into your lap.
There have been several posts to the effect that without building any buildings, wonders, or districts towards a CV - none of the 'infrastructure' supposedly required to play towards that Victory, a Rocker or two will still get you a CV. If true, then the whole Rock Band is broken and devalued the Victory system completely without modification.
Or have I misread them?
Hans Castorp
Prince
They are not that powerful. They will push you over the finish line with the last hold-out culture-oriented civs that you have yet to beat, and so can save you 10-20 turns if it is getting drawn out. But they have a high failure rate, and the faith costs scale pretty quick. If you were entirely reliant on them, you would need to be sending them to every civ, and you would need to have been saving masses of faith from a very early stage. They are mildly amusing, and alleviate the boredom that can set in waiting for the end, but they are not op.
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I'm with @Sagax on this. Lets use the logic.
If I am producing 500 tourism (including % cards) a turn then that is 750 tourism with open border and trade route to a single civ but I have 7 civs and so that is 5250 tourism per turn I am generating on a standard size map. As I understand it Rock bands do not produce over 5K tourism and have to travel to different venues so the turns in between playing create no tourism from rock bands.
However it is not as bleak as it sounds. A rock band only affects the civ you are playing in (unless you have the 10 tile promotion) so if you play to the player with the leading domestic culture against you then you are concentrating say 3.6 K (roughly the max?) of tourism on one civ. As you need 1800 tourism to get a point off a civ (and reduce their domestic by 1) a single concert will in essence boost you 4 points toward victory which is not a small thing.
However it is not that wonderful because that is seemingly the max, and to get the max you need to play the right venues and I am not sure if wonders will add 1K tourism too this as a parameter suggests. The key things are
1. If you are maybe 20 points away from a CV and getting closer then this will speed up your victory which to be honest is likely inevitable and the choice is yours to use them or not. It is an option to finish your CV without thrashing the last few turns.
2. If you are 100 points away from a CV then rock bands get progressively more expensive (80 faith per band) and will eventually outpace your faith output.
3. If another civ is producing 200 culture per turn then they are increasing by 2 points and you are say reducing by 2 points then you are slowed to 2 points per victory each concert. However, if the civ gets to 300 culture per turn then you are treading water, nothing more and you need to reduce that civs culture.... this can be done by wiping out the culture CS's and stealing works or pure invasion but it is not a done deal.
4. If you play at a target other than your highest domestic tourist opposition then you are giving yourself maybe up to 2 points toward victory.
So my take on rock bands is if you play a fast CV you will not need them as CV's are now roughly sped up somewhere between 5-10% due to a different governments modifier change. If you are not playing a fast CV (as many do not) then you can use bands as much as you want and speed yoru CV victory up or just play them at different civs because it is fun... and that is the main reason you are playing.
Are they OP?.... on prince yes, on deity a small bit if used right.
Will Firaxis twek their chances of success?.... well they seem to be much more successful now than in the livefeed so maybe they have temp buffed them during release and will be intentionally nerfed later for better gameplay.
If I am producing 500 tourism (including % cards) a turn then that is 750 tourism with open border and trade route to a single civ but I have 7 civs and so that is 5250 tourism per turn I am generating on a standard size map. As I understand it Rock bands do not produce over 5K tourism and have to travel to different venues so the turns in between playing create no tourism from rock bands.
However it is not as bleak as it sounds. A rock band only affects the civ you are playing in (unless you have the 10 tile promotion) so if you play to the player with the leading domestic culture against you then you are concentrating say 3.6 K (roughly the max?) of tourism on one civ. As you need 1800 tourism to get a point off a civ (and reduce their domestic by 1) a single concert will in essence boost you 4 points toward victory which is not a small thing.
However it is not that wonderful because that is seemingly the max, and to get the max you need to play the right venues and I am not sure if wonders will add 1K tourism too this as a parameter suggests. The key things are
1. If you are maybe 20 points away from a CV and getting closer then this will speed up your victory which to be honest is likely inevitable and the choice is yours to use them or not. It is an option to finish your CV without thrashing the last few turns.
2. If you are 100 points away from a CV then rock bands get progressively more expensive (80 faith per band) and will eventually outpace your faith output.
3. If another civ is producing 200 culture per turn then they are increasing by 2 points and you are say reducing by 2 points then you are slowed to 2 points per victory each concert. However, if the civ gets to 300 culture per turn then you are treading water, nothing more and you need to reduce that civs culture.... this can be done by wiping out the culture CS's and stealing works or pure invasion but it is not a done deal.
4. If you play at a target other than your highest domestic tourist opposition then you are giving yourself maybe up to 2 points toward victory.
So my take on rock bands is if you play a fast CV you will not need them as CV's are now roughly sped up somewhere between 5-10% due to a different governments modifier change. If you are not playing a fast CV (as many do not) then you can use bands as much as you want and speed yoru CV victory up or just play them at different civs because it is fun... and that is the main reason you are playing.
Are they OP?.... on prince yes, on deity a small bit if used right.
Will Firaxis twek their chances of success?.... well they seem to be much more successful now than in the livefeed so maybe they have temp buffed them during release and will be intentionally nerfed later for better gameplay.
Nope, the only defense Kongo gets against your victory is getting more culture and a rock band only produces tourism... So Kongo is trying to beat you to a CV or is badly programmed to think it can stop you.
Last edited:
DWilson
Where am I? What turn is it?
Maybe a culture yielding domestic concert would be a good option. It could be balanced weaker than an international tour (but perhaps more survivable).
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lol, they're rubbish but hey, they are my mates... at least they are English.
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