Zulus: Worst civ in the game?

[Plumfairy]

Man, I wish there was some way to remove the Zulu. Every single time they're in a game they completely dominate it. Every. Single. Time.

If they're far away from me, it's not too bad; they kill their neighbors but they run out of steam by the Industrial Age. But if they're close by, there is literally no way to defend yourself. The only viable strategy is to bribe them to attack somebody else, but that's both expensive and not always possible. But as for actually fighting them before the Industrial Age, it's literally impossible. 10-15 Impi (along with a smattering of CBs and warriors) will chew up any defensive force no matter what.

WTF. Why design an unstoppable civ? Grrr.

 

[docbud]

Well, you can always go to advanced settings and choose your opponents.

I actually enjoy getting the Zulus once in a while. Makes for an interesting game.

Are you upset because they are kicking your butt or because you can't adapt and kick theirs?

What difficulty level are you playing at?

 

[PhilBowles]

Had them in my last game. Knew they were there originally because the "Unmet Player has lost his capital. Shaka now controls the most original capitals" note doesn't hide the name of the victor. Seoul and Lisbon both fell before I met him - he built up such a warmonger penalty that, as soon as the World Congress was founded and everyone met him, all nine of the other surviving civs went to war.

Shaka won, adding most of Shoshone territory to his own while the rest of us signed peace deals. Then we all piled on him again, he won again, and Russia lost Novgorod.

He proved useful, though - later on I bribed him to hit Catherine since she was looking like a threat to science victory. One heavily-nuked Moscow, and a peace deal that cost her three cities, later, she was out of the running. Not that either Shaka or I ultimately benefited, since the game was won by Brazil.

I've had plenty of games where the Zulu haven't really done anything (and Shaka always seems to lose cities to cultural pressure), but I particularly like the way they're designed. All the Shaka fans clamoured to have their ultimate warmonger back, and Firaxis delivered - but he's definitely not unbeatable, and since he only ever goes for domination victories, as long as you aren't one of his enemies (i.e. as long as he has other civs to keep him occupied) he's not really a problem however powerful he becomes.

 

[Louis XXIV]

I haven't noticed him as that significant of a threat. Certainly, if I see an early capital falling, my instinct is Attila, not Shaka.

 

[reddishrecue]

I started a random game and got Ethiopia but this time Zulu was one of my neighbors. I had built my second city when Shaka complains that I was building too close to the Zulu. A few turns later, Shaka makes a DoW on me and I ended up losing my second city, but I'm now using the spirit of Adwa UA of Ethiopia bonus and I still can't get my second city back. I have been able to get Nebuchadnezzar, the other neighbor, to make a DoW on Shaka though.

 

[PrimoXanthous]

I actually enjoy getting the Zulus once in a while. Makes for an interesting game.

Agree, Zulu wars keeps you from "Exit to Desktop". And for sure you would have the most Experience Army in the game if Zulu was you neighbor. Atilla is the true threat, while you just have 3 CompBow and a couple of warriors, Atilla got any army of Battering Rams and Horse Archer. He is the worst that could happen in your few early turns.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Shaka is one of the most loyal opponents in the game. If I find myself near them, I make an effort to befriend Shaka. He hardly ever backstabs.

 

[Vitruvius]

I actually wish other civs could be dominant as Shaka. More than half of the civs are just punching bags.

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[PrimoXanthous]

I actually wish other civs could be dominant as Shaka. More than half of the civs are just punching bags.

Especially Khan, the Khan in the Game sullied the reputation of the real life Khan. His the one who once created a Great empire stretching from Korea to some part of Eastern Europe, but in the game He can't even Capture Beijing.

 

[Navelgazer]

Shaka is one of the most loyal opponents in the game. If I find myself near them, I make an effort to befriend Shaka. He hardly ever backstabs.

Exactly what I came in to say. If life hands you Shaka, become best friends with Shaka and redistribute any money you had earmarked for military. Shaka won't betray you, you can be sure of that much.

 

[kaspergm]

He is very hard to befriend, though, every time I have him as AI he's hostile right from the onset. In fact, I have much better luck with Kahn, who has many time been my bestest friend for entire games without every betraying me.

Like others have said, I also enjoy Zulu as an opponent. Sure, if they are my immediate neighbour, I do everything I can to contain them right from the start, but I've had some really funny games lately where they started on the other side of the continent, and their ability to dominate other AI players have made them a real monster which offered a good resistance right to the end of the game.

 

[phillipwyllie]

Had Shaka in my last game and he settled near me, miles from his capital. I waited until I got allies, and had crossbows before taking that city, the rest of the AI civs took care of the rest of his cities.

 

[Plumfairy]

Well, you can always go to advanced settings and choose your opponents.

True. But what I really want is a "Random but not Shaka" option.

Are you upset because they are kicking your butt or because you can't adapt and kick theirs?

What frustrates me is that there doesn't seem to be a way to adapt to Shaka if he sets his sights on you, he's unwilling to be bribed to go attack somebody else, and the terrain doesn't offer you an easily defendable chokepoint.

It is true that it's rare for all three of those conditions to be true. But if they are true, then I just restart... there doesn't seem to be a way to beat him militarily before the Industrial Age.

What difficulty level are you playing at?

Immortal.

Shaka is one of the most loyal opponents in the game. If I find myself near them, I make an effort to befriend Shaka. He hardly ever backstabs.

Yeah, I've seen his diplomatic ratings on that one spreadsheet. And yet... he has almost always eventually backstabbed me if we're near each other. I think it's because he always has such a huge military that the military differential overrides his diplomatic value. And as far as I can tell, there's no way for a human player to maintain military parity.

Atilla is the true threat, while you just have 3 CompBow and a couple of warriors, Atilla got any army of Battering Rams and Horse Archer.

Yup, Atilla can be a doozy as well. But I understand how to beat his early game forces: make sure to build an extra couple melee units, and always keep them between your cities & his battering rams. I'm not always able to successfully pull it off, but at least there *is* a defense. Shaka, on the other hand... you can't do anything.

 

[kaspergm]

What frustrates me is that there doesn't seem to be a way to adapt to Shaka if he sets his sights on you, he's unwilling to be bribed to go attack somebody else, and the terrain doesn't offer you an easily defendable chokepoint.

It is true that it's rare for all three of those conditions to be true. But if they are true, then I just restart... there doesn't seem to be a way to beat him militarily before the Industrial Age.

I think it's hard to really generalize about the game. Maybe you've just been unfortunate ... in my latest game, I was facing this:

Spoiler :

And I said to Shaka "Hey, how do you feel about declaring war on Monty?" and he said "Ok sure, give my 2GPT" and then he marched all his troops back west. Earlier in the game, I had done the same where he had a similar line-up (and I was less well-prepared) and he marched down and conquered India which was south of former Germany (as you see in the left of this image). I only play Emperor so that might make a difference, and he may have realized that he would get his butt kicked if he threw himself at that wall, but that usually doesn't stop the AI from trying.

 

[Greizer85]

There is a mod that lets you exclude civs from appearing in the game. 'Really Advanced Setup' iirc. Disables most achievements, like any mod, ofc.

(I should update my sig but I won't bother until I've upgraded my map... Be very afraid of the Zulus on my map btw, because they will get Altitude Training for their Impis from Mt Kilimanjaro (if you let them take it)! No to mention they have all of Southern Africa to colonize... Basically unless it's Hurt-Yourself-Day, do not choose Egypt or Ethiopia! )

 

[cpm4001]

True. But what I really want is a "Random but not Shaka" option.

If you're willing to play with mods, I believe there's one called "Really Advanced Set-Up" out there that allows you to choose which civs will and won't appear in the game.

EDIT: Duh, got Ninja'd

 

[JustinianIV]

Especially Khan, the Khan in the Game sullied the reputation of the real life Khan. His the one who once created a Great empire stretching from Korea to some part of Eastern Europe, but in the game He can't even Capture Beijing.

Just played my first game post patch (deity), and to my surprise,Genghis dominated his end of the Pangaea. I was on the other end and had to pull no stops in curbing his streak.

In the end he captured over a dozen cities. Point is, this was the first time Civ-Genghis felt like the real deal.

 

[PhilBowles]

I haven't noticed him as that significant of a threat. Certainly, if I see an early capital falling, my instinct is Attila, not Shaka.

Attila can actually capture cities? I've not seen him much post-BNW, and in his last appearance he played a completely peaceful game (quite successfully), but based on past precedent if I see an early capital falling it quite often meant that Attila was in the game, declared a war he couldn't handle, and died while valiantly trying and failing to defend his court with battering rams.

Shaka is one of the most loyal opponents in the game. If I find myself near them, I make an effort to befriend Shaka. He hardly ever backstabs.

That's what I like about Genghis, but I did get an unpleasant surprise when he backstabbed me in one recent game. In my experience with Shaka, if he's a neighbour you'll always go to war eventually - but you know he's there and have a lot of time to prepare since he almost always waits on his Impi. The civs that tend to hurt me most are the ones that aren't specifically designed as warmongers, and can surprise you (had a very promising start as Poland, when I ran into both Fuji and Sinai in settleable areas. Unfortunately my neighbour was Pachacuti - not always superaggressive, but I find him hard to deal with when he does go the military route. That guy can really unit-spam).

In the end he captured over a dozen cities. Point is, this was the first time Civ-Genghis felt like the real deal.

I like Genghis in Civ V - he's loyal, characterful, and obsessed with sausages ... but, it's true, not often effective (unless he goes for a non-military victory). In my current game, for no apparent reason, he's declared war on Bogota at least three times, and still hasn't taken it (or Ormus, which he attacked once - no idea why he didn't take it since he was well-placed to do so and had taken it to half health). He's not as utterly hopeless as Attila, though.

 

[BuzWeaverCiv]

Shaka is one of the most loyal opponents in the game. If I find myself near them, I make an effort to befriend Shaka. He hardly ever backstabs.

Funny you should mention that. In my last game, which was my first Time victory (as Alexander), Shaka, Attila, Askia, Khan and Monti were all my friends. Granted I had an entire section of the map (large island - continent map) to myself. Khan ended up gobbling most of the other Civ's, but Napoleon and Dido were constantly giving me a hard time.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

Well if they are aggresive you should be able to decleare on them with little less penalaty then useall. If you got a civ you need to help, get open boarders and get some millitary to that civ to help them fend of the zulu, and for the zulu is basicly gg if you succed.
If you got them close get a millitary quickly maybe also a city between you and zulu which is easy to defend and if needed get honor and millitary tradition for the citadel which will keep you safe I think for the rest of the game and may be better then keeping a big millitary.
If they have rushed another continent then you got some big problems however.