Can't Beat Immortal!

[Pirate334]

Every game I get attacked earlier and earlier. I feel like if I try to train any more units than I do I won't be able to get any buildings, workers or new cities. I have tried liberty and tradition open. I seem to get attacked earlier and earlier every game! Also I'm playing marathon.

In the image below I counted 25 enemy units on the next turn. I just don't see how it would be possible for any player to have prepared for that before hand.

By the way, Napoleon is the biggest scum bag ever. Is there any other civ that always declares war on you one turn after someone else?

 

[Gustavus Rex]

Napoleon and Alex are the biggest scumbags of them all. Ceasar as well...

Unlucky to have them gang up on you.

One way is to try to get ahead and bribe some of them to attack the other while you focus on infra structure.

 

[joncnunn]

The turn number & year indicate this is some timescale slower than standard. On slower scales you need more units than on standard.
This is also an internal start, so you need more military than on coastal where there's one direction they won't be coming from for a while.

But even on standard speed for that year with a coastal start you should have had 4 Composites all pre built as Archers and upgraded.

 

[Pirate334]

In that case what are my other priorities in terms of what buildings, how many cities, how many workers and tradition or liberty?

 

[Pirate334]

If I'm not being attacked by everyone my happiness and money is constantly in the negative which eventually leads me to be so far behind on tech that I have legions and composites while other players are on muskets and crossbows! I have by FAR the lowest population and lowest number of cities and I have cathedrals and coliseums as well as circus maximus, I'm selling all my spare luxaries and strategic resources, markets in every cities, 4 trade caravans and still negative happiness and gold!

 

[Mutineer]

hmm... let me understand it, it is turn 217, you have only 2 cities one size 7 other size 3. hmm....


even if it is Marathon you are way behind. At that time you expected to have min 3 cities with capital size 15.

 

[Acken]

My personal opinion is that standard and quick are much better at learning the ropes of the game taking way less time to play the BC era each time and see how things are going. Once that's done, adapting to marathon should be a formality.

The biggest thing to know about marathon defensive warfare is that you cannot defend retroactively, you must be ready. You cannot start to pump archers when the enemy is at your borders the way you sometimes can on standard, it's too late.

 

[Pirate334]

hmm... let me understand it, it is turn 217, you have only 2 cities one size 7 other size 3. hmm....


even if it is Marathon you are way behind. At that time you expected to have min 3 cities with capital size 15.

How can I have a capital size 15 at that point? Are you aware that turn 217 on marathon is only just in the classical era? Should I be using caravans to boost food or something?

Sorry if this sounds a bit rude but I don't mean to be, I'm just trying to understand what I should be doing differently.

 

[Pirate334]

I'm playing another game and I am on turn 261 and once again I'm in a similar situation: two cities population 8 and 4. However, looking around it seems most other civs have a capital of size 9 or 10 so I can't be that far behind. Also I'm on plains (as I was last time) not grassland or flood plains like most others in this game and the last.

Also just been attacked again, this time by just one civ, Songhai, who I generally find to be one of the worst. It's clear to me how important combat strategy is in wars are because I have reloaded the game several times since the turn I was attacked and each time I lost less and less units until most recently when I lost none!

 

[reddishrecue]

Immortal is difficult but not impossible to pass. A good tradition tall start with research can get you going to a late ish good start. If you leave other civilizations alone, be nice mind your own business and whatever not, then you can eventually catch up. I'm telling you about this because I have cleared Immortal once and it was difficult but not impossible. However, I couldn't believe it. ..

 

[Mutineer]

Forget about war, your economic development need to be worked on first.

Post save game initial of any of your game, and I will play first 200 turns (of your game) for you (Thought I never play on slow speed), and I will should where you could be if you play more optimum).

 

[Pirate334]

looks like another game lost because apparently defending yourself from another AI bully counts as extreme warmongering so everyone will declare war on you.

Seriously it seems like if you start near another civ it's basically game over from the beginning. The only way to stop them constantly harassing you forever is if you take their cities, but if you do that everyone will hate you for for the next 3000 years and they will all gang up on you. What the hell are you meant to do?

 

[dragonxxx]

maybe if you learn how to settle, if you are not gonna have this problem?
In the screenshot above, you have both cities settled on flatland, where you have pretty good hill spots for both. In this particular case, rome had to be 2 tiles to the south, and Antium - on top of the copper near the gems north of Rome or on top of the copper on the coast, east of Rome.

If this city was properly placed, I seriously doubt you could lose it.

 

[dragonxxx]

And besides this - Rome is one of the weaker civs in general, and their UU is nothing that special, so there is no point building it. Early iron working is such a waste ...

 

[reddishrecue]

Ais usually become better at research at first but eventually ais could lose their tech lead from wars or conflicts.

 

[Nares]

looks like another game lost because apparently defending yourself from another AI bully counts as extreme warmongering so everyone will declare war on you.

You're inviting all these DOWs by having an extremely weak army.

Pump a few units out earlier and they probably won't DOW you in the first place.

Chances are you're building too much infrastructure. +3fpt? Where's that coming from? Two shrines and earth mother? That's one shrine too many.

You appear to only have four units, with maybe one or two scouts I can't see; you're not paying much in unit maintenance.

You have at least two trade routes coming in from William; where's all that gold going?

In the screenshot above, you have both cities settled on flatland, where you have pretty good hill spots for both.

That raises another point re: spears.

As far as I know, practically anything military counts towards your soldier metric in the demographics. This includes defensive buildings (walls/castles/etc), training buildings (barracks, etc), unit promotions and, yes, even the displayed strength value of your cities (which are ~50% stronger on hills).

 

[dragonxxx]

There are other things to consider here too - no matter how weak the military is, I don't remember having Alex attack me out of the blue. That happens if you offend him (by attacking a city state) or if you have forwardsettled on him. And as it looks, he is not even your direct neighbour, so when you see all that army marching towards you, if he is not hostile you can just pay him to attack France, and non of this would happen. Ofc you would need some GPT that you don't have to do so.

I think marathon is the hardest of em all, so if I were you - I'd first learn how to play immortal on standart, then on epic speed and after that jump to marathon.

 

[Mutineer]

Actually marathon is easiest. It is about 2 level down of difficulty from normal speed.
reason: ai is very stupid in managing army. Ai does not understand that every lost units are very hard to replace on that speed. ON normal speed Ai can replace units fast, on marathon one your army dead it stay dead.

 

[Don Matt]

Some other things to consider:
* You have multiple close neighbors... City Walls will do wonders for protecting your cities - especially if you have built them on hills, as others have suggested.
* I usually prefer to spears and (later) pikemen to defende my cities. (With, of course, archers or composite bowmen.)
* Earlier, something went wrong... I generally have at least a third city before my capitol hits size seven. You have some copper nearby, at the least, which would have supported a city with happiness and helped your income. (I will often put a city on top of the luxury to get it immediately)
* With lots of neighbors, your diplomatic efforts are very important. Did you:
Exchange embassies?
Trade with all your neighbors - even at a slight disadvantage to yourself?

 

[joncnunn]

Actually marathon is easiest. It is about 2 level down of difficulty from normal speed.
reason: ai is very stupid in managing army. Ai does not understand that every lost units are very hard to replace on that speed. ON normal speed Ai can replace units fast, on marathon one your army dead it stay dead.

Yes, that's true, but the human must also have built more military than OP did for this speed.