Money. Doing it Right this Time.

[Cutlass]

Spoiler :

 

[Hygro]

love it.

 

[Borachio]

What happens if you select "c"?

 

[Hygro]

TBH It's a more accurate answer than B

 

[jackelgull]

TBH It's a more accurate answer than B

Isn't the economy also tied to more tangible thing like the flow of goods of a nation and throughout a nation?

 

[Hygro]

Isn't the economy also tied to more tangible thing like the flow of goods of a nation and throughout a nation?

That basically is the economy.

((real) economy ≠ money)

 

[jackelgull]

Despite having read this thread, I still can't divorce the concept of money from the economy.

So what gives money its value if not faith of the consumer and the seller?
I always thought that was conventional wisdom?

 

[schlaufuchs]

Despite having read this thread, I still can't divorce the concept of money from the economy.

So what gives money its value if not faith of the consumer and the seller?
I always thought that was conventional wisdom?

Taxes and wages. Mostly just taxes.

 

[Borachio]

So what gives money its value if not faith of the consumer and the seller?
I always thought that was conventional wisdom?

Once you realize that money has no value at all, life suddenly becomes a whole lot more interesting.

 

[Tahuti]

Taxes and wages. Mostly just taxes.

Taxes make certain currencies more widely used and thus less volatile. That doesn't mean it owes is value from taxes. In fact, the very notion is falsified by the fact the Iraqi Swiss Dinar continued to be used after Saddam Hussein's fall.

 

[Cutlass]

Despite having read this thread, I still can't divorce the concept of money from the economy.

So what gives money its value if not faith of the consumer and the seller?
I always thought that was conventional wisdom?

Think of your checkbook. A checkbook is just a really small and simple accounting ledger. You work, and your paycheck gets deposited in your checking account. You pay your bills, buy your groceries, buy whatever else you want to buy. You keep track of your balance, what goes in equals what goes out.

Now forget the money for a moment. What is going into your checking account is a number which measures the value of your work. What goes out is a number which is a measure of the value of your expenses and purchases.

What gives the money itself its value? The measure of value of the work that goes in and the purchases that go out.

 

[Borachio]

What determines the value of your work and the value of your purchases, though?

There has to be a measure of belief in there somewhere I think.

If people don't believe that my work has value and I don't believe that the purchases that I could make (assuming someone thought my work had value so that I had credit to spend) have value, doesn't the whole deck of cards collapse about my ears?

Credit, we can remember, comes from credere to believe. (I believe).

 

[Tahuti]

What determines the value of your work and the value of your purchases, though?

There has to be a measure of belief in there somewhere I think.

If people don't believe that my work has value and I don't believe that the purchases that I could make, provided someone thought my work had value, have value doesn't the whole deck of cards collapse about my ears?

Eh... money?

To be sure, there was such a thing as work before money, though not doing any work would usually mean you'd die, so that worked good enough, until advances in development meant that working led to surpluses.

 

[Borachio]

Depends what you mean by "work", of course. Mostly it's used to refer to paid employment but there's no reason why it should (which you seem to imply). It could mean any activity whatsoever. Like breathing.

 

[El_Machinae]

The value of money is that it's all debt. I lend you $100, you pay me $102 next year. OR, you could end up having to sell off your assets at a discount to pay me back.

Lots of debt is backed by assets 'worth' more than the debt, if we calculate using their replacement value.

 

[Cheetah]

Despite having read this thread, I still can't divorce the concept of money from the economy.

The economy is the body. Money is the blood.

Habeas corpus.

Think of your checkbook. A checkbook is just a really small and simple accounting ledger. You work, and your paycheck gets deposited in your checking account. You pay your bills, buy your groceries, buy whatever else you want to buy. You keep track of your balance, what goes in equals what goes out.

Yeah, no. Checkbooks are a complete black art for me.

All I know is that modern banks take ~15 USD to give me money if I have a check...

 

[Hygro]

Despite having read this thread, I still can't divorce the concept of money from the economy.

So what gives money its value if not faith of the consumer and the seller?
I always thought that was conventional wisdom?

That's because this thread is about money

Taxes and wages. Mostly just taxes.

yep

Taxes make certain currencies more widely used and thus less volatile. That doesn't mean it owes is value from taxes. In fact, the very notion is falsified by the fact the Iraqi Swiss Dinar continued to be used after Saddam Hussein's fall.

The Kurdish Government taxed and spent in Iraqi Swiss Dinar. It had to be in that order because they didn't print new ones.

Think of your checkbook. A checkbook is just a really small and simple accounting ledger. You work, and your paycheck gets deposited in your checking account. You pay your bills, buy your groceries, buy whatever else you want to buy. You keep track of your balance, what goes in equals what goes out.

Now forget the money for a moment. What is going into your checking account is a number which measures the value of your work. What goes out is a number which is a measure of the value of your expenses and purchases.

What gives the money itself its value? The measure of value of the work that goes in and the purchases that go out.

yep, making the money part an accounting measure and the production and distribution of goods the real economy.

The value of money is that it's all debt. I lend you $100, you pay me $102 next year. OR, you could end up having to sell off your assets at a discount to pay me back.

Lots of debt is backed by assets 'worth' more than the debt, if we calculate using their replacement value.

also yep.

 

[El_Machinae]

In fact, I'd suggest that the value of money is because it's debt. The value of a currency is because of taxes. The currency needs to piggyback on the fact that the money is valuable.

 

[Hygro]

Taxes make currency debt, a negative interest rate loan to the people in exchange for sticking to the currency for their money.

 

[Borachio]

Well, I dunno. You might as well all be talking in Chinese for all the sense I can make of it.