Denmark forces immigrants to hand over any valuables

[Nexlev]

The latter is not a human right. Asylum from persecution is.

Exactly. That is where the distinction between refugees and economic migrant becomes key

 

[Angst]

Sorry about not replying to you guys. I feel I'm not as well spoken as you. I understand the point about interstate travel being a good ideal but being impractical in practice. But I also think that there are forces that tie you to where you live beyond legal and economic forces. And I think these forces would even out population movement, if just slightly. I don't think I have anything else relevant to say.

At best it's redundant from the start, at worst it just makes Denmark plain nasty.

I agree with this.

EDIT: Oh btw. These stats are interesting.

81 members of parliament voted for the law, 27 voted against it, and 1 abstained. But 70 members of parliament were absent during the proceedings and the voting of the proposal. Source in Danish

What do you guys think about that?

EDIT 2: You know what, I should read my sources through. The link explains it's part of a so-called clearing system which is necessary to maintain with a minority coalition government. All parties are represented relative to their size during proceedings.

 

[Agent327]

Absenteism during parliamentary votes may be more common than you might think. It's not unusual for party votes to be known in advance, so only the relevant party members willl vote (i.e. the ones that have the specialism for a particular vote). So, in itself there's not much to be said about 70 members being absent during any vote. It's interesting in this case though, because the vote got actually passed by a minority. But apparently in Denmark that's not a problem.

Exactly. That is where the distinction between refugees and economic migrant becomes key

Which is a matter of the immigration authorities, not the general public. That said, to pretend that the overwhelming majority of the current refugees would be economic migrants is bordering on the absurd. But again, this is not a matter to be judged by the general public, but a case for the immigration authorities to determine. Lastly, someone being an economic immigrant is in itself not a reason to bar entrance to a country.

So, in short, you may think it is 'key', but actually it is not.

 

[Verbose]

Which is a matter of the immigration authorities, not the general public. That said, to pretend that the overwhelming majority of the current refugees would be economic migrants is bordering on the absurd. But again, this is not a matter to be judged by the general public, but a case for the immigration authorities to determine. Lastly, someone being an economic immigrant is in itself not a reason to bar entrance to a country.

So, in short, you may think it is 'key', but actually it is not.

It's been making the rounds in international news lately, that Swedish imigration authorities have stated that while 170 000 or so refugees have been accepted into the country, an estimated 50 000 to 80 000 might not have valid asylum reasons, and so would be expelled — not all back to their countries of origin though, a big chunk would be slated to be sent back to other EU countries. THAT will be very popular I'm sure...

 

[Funky]

Swedish imigration authorities have stated that while 170 000 or so refugees have been accepted into the country, an estimated 50 000 to 80 000 might not have valid asylum reasons, and so would be expelled

A clear case of buyer's remorse.


As for the thread topic, this forum never ceases to amaze me. Hordes of illegal migrants make their way into the country. The Danes offer them free shelter, food, and even an extra pocketmoney. All sponsored by the Danish tax payers. And when the Danes suggest that these illegals should get the same treatment as everyone else in the country, namely that they only get certain social benefits when they are really in need and don't have loads of money on them, regressives get up and accuse the Danes of being evil, cruel Nazis. Truly fascinating.

 

[Verbose]

A clear case of buyer's remorse.

Oh, please... You wish!

It's a government agency. It's what the system does. There has literally been no changes in its remit or MO. It's a totally predictable outcome. The percentage of insufficient asylum grounds might have gone up thoigh — but then that's an effect of most every other country in the EU just waving people through — Denmark being the example closest at hand.

But assuming you are right, and this is all a matter of Swedes being chumps and wanting to get out of a situation — well, then the course is clear. We deport them to Denmark. What are the Danes going to do about it, hm? Because that's clearly what everyone should be doing then. Find someone weaker, and dump on them.

Still the situation in Sweden remains that the Swedish Democrats are still bent out of shape over the unexpected general public support for taking in refugees. That was NOT soupposed to happen, when the SD finally saw what they though was their "dream scenario" unfold. This sudden run on Europe and Sweden was supposed to be the crucial moment that would propel them to national leadership. Didn't happen. (So now they express dissatisfaction with representative parliamentarism, and want to retool themselves into a grass-roots political movement out in the sticks — the generous interpretation being that the want another kind of democratic mandate, and the ungenerous one that they are getting fed up with democracy in general, when the public refuses to rally to them.)

The only actual remorse so far is likely the Social Democrats and PM Löfvén who publicly stated that there was literally NO limit to how many refugees Sweden could take. That was just plain dumb, since it's obvious that Sweden could never handle the EU refugee situation on its own, much less take in all the refugees in the world (some 60 million at this point).

The Swedish public is still massively in favour of having taken in about 170 000 refugees. (That's minus the 20% SD supporters.) It was the right thing to do.

Just like there is a general agreement, that, well, that's it, we've done our bit for now. Other countries want something done here, they can bloody well fix it themselves. Well process the situation, and if other countries want to have an opinion about it, they can do as much first, and then maybe they might deserve a hearing. Until then, feck'em. They have nothing to tell Sweden — not that it will stop some of them from endlessly badmouthing the country, for both having the back-bone to offer relief on the scale it has, and then applying the breaks.

Sweden has so far managed to be stunningly generous in this situation, compared to most other EU states. It has also not allowed the situation to get out of hand. Both things clearly merits the hate of other EU member states, for the kind of preassure through example that amounts to. If they are not going to follow the lead however, they want and need Sweden to fail to get off the hook themselves. Their investment in Swedish failure over this is palpable. With regards to Sweden it's not even possible to make the excuse that "Oh we're just a small country, one could not possibly ask us to make any perceptible difference in this — we're not like Germany you see, the Germans should fix it all."

 

[caketastydelish]

I stopped reading this after "told a news conference in Constantinople".

I'm downright disappointed that even after the first 3 pages or so, no one called Kryiakos out on this. He is here to spam his Greek nationalism with subliminal messages, and then he calls the Danes "nazis".

 

[MilitantSecular]

I stopped reading this after "told a news conference in Constantinople

Good for him, I respect him
I might do the very same I might even call it Byzantium.

I am against war, I'm non-interventionist, I'm very liberal, I can barely remember any Greek words and have no Greek blood and no Greek family and I say GOOD FOR HIM

I'm not for Greek ultra nationalism, I am against Greek wars and I'm not against the people of Arabia, or the Middle East but I respect this writing
Constantinople is one of those better names

Put aside the media cries of Israeli occupation of Palestine for 10 seconds, maybe what we really need to do is...We have got to Stop the Islamic Occupation of Non-Muslim Lands
https://www.facebook.com/Stop-the-Islamic-Occupation-of-Non-Muslim-Lands-220286241333378/

I think Islam is very bad for humanity and the spread of Islam must be stopped. I have nothing against these muslim people only against their politico religious belief, I am for them and I support their human rights. I am only against the idea of Allah and Islam and I am against the belief just as you can be against fascist belief, communist belief, davidian belief, scientology belief, or the Jonestown Temple of Jim Jones religion...that is how I see Islam
People should be free to say what they want against it, people should have the freedom to believe whatever God or Gods they want but I am against the large spread of organized religion, I don't believe the religions and I am for seperating the churches and temples and mosques from the State.

I think the religion of Islam, should be confined mostly to Mecca and Tehran, everywhere it goes it drives humanity backwards. If people want to live in Sharia lands they will have Mecca and Tehran to live, everywhere else the religion should be laughed at, intellictually fought, ridiculed, contained, diminished.

Islam is one of the worst things to have happened to Turkey,
Long live Atatürk's secular vision!!

Too bad idiot erdogan is destroying the Turkish people
----

Here's some news

Exhibitionist im Bus;Einbrecher erbeuten Schmuck und Geld;Rentnerin bestohlen;Außenspiegel abgefahren;Diebstahl von Benzin scheitert;Dreister Dieb;VW Fox angefahren
My German is not great but here goes

http://www.presseportal.de/blaulicht/pm/43648/3235489

A “North African” man boarded a German Marburg bus this week and stood behind a 19 year old woman, touching her inappropriately. He later sat down on the bus and pulled down his trousers, and performed “sex acts” with himself, everyone one the bus was disgusted...someone vomited and people are traumatised by these rape attacks...he continued to sexually assault. Police give out a phone number appealing for witnesses.

 

[caketastydelish]

I expected to derail the thread, but not by that amount.

 

[Agent327]

I think Islam is very bad for humanity and the spread of Islam must be stopped.

So hold a demonstration.

A “North African” man boarded a German Marburg bus this week and stood behind a 19 year old woman, touching her inappropriately. He later sat down on the bus and pulled down his trousers, and performed “sex acts” with himself, everyone one the bus was disgusted...someone vomited and people are traumatised by these rape attacks...he continued to sexually assault. Police give out a phone number appealing for witnesses.

This wasn't a 'rape attack', but public exhibitionism. Certain Westerners practice that as a hobby - and make videos of it. (Sorry, no vid, as that's unsuitable material for CFC.)

Did you have anything actually related to topic?

It's been making the rounds in international news lately, that Swedish imigration authorities have stated that while 170 000 or so refugees have been accepted into the country, an estimated 50 000 to 80 000 might not have valid asylum reasons, and so would be expelled — not all back to their countries of origin though, a big chunk would be slated to be sent back to other EU countries. THAT will be very popular I'm sure...

Oh, refugees are a popularity contest are they?

 

[Kyriakos]

I stopped reading this after "told a news conference in Constantinople".

I'm downright disappointed that even after the first 3 pages or so, no one called Kryiakos out on this. He is here to spam his Greek nationalism with subliminal messages, and then he calls the Danes "nazis".

This not being the subject of thread, yet:
You are accusing me of using the original greek letters when there are lesser versions available? It's not 'nationalism', it is what i like.
Please get real, ΛΟΛ

 

[MilitantSecular]

Certain Westerners practice that as a hobby - and make videos of it. (Sorry, no vid, as that's unsuitable material for CFC.)

So let me get this right, because my German is not very good. In the article it reads he sexually assaulted a European woman? this muslim migrant so to speak, he touched her in an inappropriate manner...
...you ignore this.
and you even defend the attacks of islamic immigrants on Western women

...because of some dvd/vhs/bluray pornography fetish?

am I getting that right?

You speak German, you have read the article and are actually defending this criminal man's sexual attack on a German woman?

What I find worrying is that many citizens don't seem to care about human rights - period.

Political rulers in Denmark first have loyalty to its own people, the first obligation of the Danish government is the safety, free rights and security of its own people.
I think there are real genuine refugees out there, people with children and famalies who are fleeing the religious extremism of the middle east need help and they can be helped.
However
Bringing in thousands of radical people from the Middle East who believe in things like 'Sharia Law' is not going to improve the human rights of the Danish people or improve the rights of people in the Western world. There have already been many attacks, there is now a new 'game' of group collective rape or collective sexual harassment in crowds.These kinds of attacks were normally confined to the streets of the middle east but now this cultural 'sport' of Taharrush Gamea, the rape game, has been "played" all over Europe in recent months. The same collective molestation and rape game almost cost CBS correspondent Laura Logan her life in Tahrir Square on the night of the Muslim Brotherhood's victory. This Arabic gang-rape 'Taharrush' phenomenon which sees women surrounded by groups of men in crowds and sexually assaulted.

Unfortunatley the mainstream media was not reporting all this and Merkel had chats with Facebook CEO Zuckerberg to censor anti-immigration posts. It all started to leak out on blogs, tinfoil head sites like Alex Jones, it leaked out on youtube and on twitter, then reports started coming in from both left news media sources and right media sources, there were so many independent sources that it had to be true. It turns out Sweden was not just censoring the riots, stealing, the attacks and the rapes during New Years but Swedish media may have been censoring, burying news and deleting reporting for the past 2 years!!


Link to video.


Link to video.

 

[Kyriakos]

^Reminds me of that 'knock out' game in the US reported last year(s), where youths try to knock a random person unconscious (or dead) with one punch

Obviously those kinds of people do not belong in any society, and should be deported. I doubt that a large percentage of the immigrants are into this, though. And yes, this has been an issue in Greece, where we had illegals from central asia for more than a decade now.

 

[warpus]

If rights are born in the statute books, they're something given to us by our betters, something we ought to be grateful for. That's not what it should be: they're something that comes from us, that we demand of those in power over us.

How are they supposed to come from us? It sounds nice and all, but it's not like you'd be able to rip open a human body and find "The rights and freedoms of man" written out somewhere. The idea for these rights comes from man, but they don't become bona fide rights until they are enshrined in law and protected as such by the state.

And yes, I think we should be grateful that we have these rights - most people in human history were not anywhere near as lucky as we are. We shouldn't be grateful that the current government has these laws on the books, but rather that society as a whole has gone through the historical whatever-the-hell happened to lead to them being enshrined in law. This probably included people rising up against some other form of establishment and changing it for the better. I mean, you are right that this is how these things usually start, a popular movement, not a random law being drafted up by some politician. There needs to be a bit of a public consensus before that happens.

 

[Kyriakos]

^The state is supposed to be by the people and for the people, and also preserve that character.

 

[Flying Pig]

How are they supposed to come from us? It sounds nice and all, but it's not like you'd be able to rip open a human body and find "The rights and freedoms of man" written out somewhere. The idea for these rights comes from man, but they don't become bona fide rights until they are enshrined in law and protected as such by the state.

And yes, I think we should be grateful that we have these rights - most people in human history were not anywhere near as lucky as we are. We shouldn't be grateful that the current government has these laws on the books, but rather that society as a whole has gone through the historical whatever-the-hell happened to lead to them being enshrined in law. This probably included people rising up against some other form of establishment and changing it for the better. I mean, you are right that this is how these things usually start, a popular movement, not a random law being drafted up by some politician. There needs to be a bit of a public consensus before that happens.

Good point on gratitude - but that's a very different beast from considering that the right to free speech is a privilege granted by the government in the way that bus passes for OAPs are. It's not something that powerful people give out because they're nice; it's something they have to give out because they're afraid of what their citizens will do if they don't. I think you're using 'right' to be guaranteed by law by default, which is fair but doesn't quite fit with phrases like 'the government of North Korea denies its citizens their right to freedom of conscience'. There's an implicit recognition that the right exists - that laws should exist enshrining it - regardless of what a country's laws actually say.

 

[warpus]

The thing is, when did the right for free speech come about? If what you say is true then it must have always existed - but where?

That's why I say that it doesn't really exist unless you make it exist - by writing it down and making it law. It can exist as an idea before that, but I bet people have had the idea of free speech for thousands of years before it was actually embraced as a thing that could potentially happen, and then eventually signed into law in some places.

 

[Kyriakos]

^A law is communal, so by definition it has to be about a community. The idea itself obviously pre-dates any community of such nature.

 

[warpus]

^A law is communal, so by definition it has to be about a community. The idea itself obviously pre-dates any community of such nature.

Yeah, the idea for a right can exist many decades or even centuries before it begins to exist as an actual right. I'm sure for many people in the past the idea of freedom of religion was something crazy that was never going to happen. And of course there was a time before anyone even imagined such a thing, it not existing as an idea, a thought, or anything at all.

 

[Flying Pig]

The thing is, when did the right for free speech come about? If what you say is true then it must have always existed - but where?

That's why I say that it doesn't really exist unless you make it exist - by writing it down and making it law. It can exist as an idea before that, but I bet people have had the idea of free speech for thousands of years before it was actually embraced as a thing that could potentially happen, and then eventually signed into law in some places.

I say it exists when you make it exist by demanding it and fighting for it.