Summer 2017 Patch Notes Discussion

[Kyro]

@PhilBowles
I'll withold comments on the overall change in production costs until I've done the Math but I will have to correct you on the identity of Civilization.

I don't know where you got the idea that Civilization has always been a wargame but I will oppose that.

Civilization is first and foremost not a game about war but a game about Civilization. It inculcates War but does not Revolve around it as far as the idea behind the game goes; although it has been poorly executed as of late.

To the extent that Civilization is a game about Civilization, to that same extent it cannot revolve around war.

And thus the disatisfaction towards the wrong direction this patch.

 

[nzcamel]

• Press Gangs will now unlock with Exploration and Native Conquest with Colonialism.

Does anyone remember where these were before?

 

[Blue Odin]

Does anyone remember where these were before?

They just switched positions, so Press Gangs was at Colonialism and Native Conquest was at Exploration

 

[nzcamel]

@PhilBowles
I'll withold comments on the overall change in production costs until I've done the Math but I will have to correct you on the identity of Civilization.

I don't know where you got the idea that Civilization has always been a wargame but I will oppose that.

Civilization is first and foremost not a game about war but a game about Civilization. It inculcates War but does not Revolve around it as far as the idea behind the game goes; although it has been poorly executed as of late.

To the extent that Civilization is a game about Civilization, to that same extent it cannot revolve around war.

I agree with Kyro that Civ isn't primarily a war game. That is the main reason I prefer it over many other strategy games where war is an option - for them it is the main option. For Civ it has never been seen as something you have to initiate.

 

[Victoria]

grabbing 2 or 3 settlers early is going to make/break many an empire

Good luck finding them beyond the initial ones


Another just noticed was my archers upgrade to crossbowmen for 10 gold less... meaning if I start with slingers it's cheaper to go to xbow

 

[Uncle_Joe]

@PhilBowles
I'll withold comments on the overall change in production costs until I've done the Math but I will have to correct you on the identity of Civilization.

I don't know where you got the idea that Civilization has always been a wargame but I will oppose that.

Civilization is first and foremost not a game about war but a game about Civilization. It inculcates War but does not Revolve around it as far as the idea behind the game goes; although it has been poorly executed as of late.

To the extent that Civilization is a game about Civilization, to that same extent it cannot revolve around war.

And thus the disatisfaction towards the wrong direction this patch.

How many Great Civilizations in history weren't forged by war or had to endure a fair share of wars in their history? The history of humanity is punctuated by warfare. It may not be the 'ideal' viewpoint these days, but it's been true for the last few thousand years.

If you can go through a full game of Civ and NOT be involved in multiple wars, it would be indicative that it's not a very good portrayal of human history

 

[Victoria]

I agree with Kyro that Civ isn't primarily a war game. ....For Civ it has never been seen as something you have to initiate.

Sadly it is becoming a stronger requirement

Great scientists activatuion seems a bit broken, will wait for the next scientist to make sure I was not imagining activation twice

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Looks like the UI is moving further along in its alpha development! A few steps in the right direction.

Civ's mechanics have dictated that it's centered around military dominance first since civ 1, and none of the games between then and now have been an exception BTW. Playing pretend in SP remains an option just like in older versions.

 

[Esperr]

Just finished a game with Nubia, overall I will say the update is ok, the whole balance of the game just needs an over haul. Some of the updates don't make much sense, at least from a balance perspective.

Greece acropolis bonus
Why are you making one of the best civs in the game stronger? I guess its maybe to push people to play them peacefully more, but that doesn't make sense given some of the other changes.

Nubia lol
They have a way better version of the best unit in the game.

Settler cost increase
Conquest was already way to strong and easy in the game and now they have made it even better. I will admit that full peaceful games can be a drag, but now whoever sacks there neighbor or grabs a settler early is even further ahead then before. I guess im just over civ games where you conquer your first neighbor and then declare GG because you are just so.far.ahead that nobody can catch up.

Random UI stuff
...and there is still a mod that does it better and has been since like a week after the games release.

I havn't played this game in about a month, and have not played heavily since the previous patch. Its a great game, but I don't feel like it has the longevity of II, IV and V right now because the balance is all over the place.Era are still way to fast and beelining is still OP. I really wish they would iron things out so we can play this game that was supposed to have all of these choices and decisions in it, instead of devolving into one of two or three lines every game.

as an aside, I just reinstalled II and played a few rounds of that, it really drove home how important flavor is for games and part of why I think VI felt so lifeless(Beyond Earth had the same issue). When I play VI I feel like I am very much just playing a game, whereas II I really got into the flavor of being a leader and ruling a people through time.

Overall a fine update and I hope there are more like it, but I will probably play a round or two more and not touch it until the next DLC/Expansion again.

edit:Scythia finally looks weaker for MP, but they are probably still stupid.

 

[Disgustipated]

Is anyone else not getting popups for tech and civic discoveries? I'm beginning to miss Sean Bean's voice.

 

[Wingednosering]

Finally a restart button and saving of configurations. That's great.
Making AI smarter. What's not to like?

The rest:

• When you liberate a city-state your military units are only kicked back from the first ring of hexes around the city; you aren't ejected from their territory entirely.

What is the reasoning behind pushing military units out in the first place? Why fix half of it when the whole thing is just nonsensical?

I agree with most of your post, but not all of it.

The first tile is the city. That unit has to move. The second ring needs to be clear so workers can begin building infrastructure and units can be built.

Also, if the CS flips that same turn (very common), not all of your units are in city attack range.

This "give and take" approach to game design is heavily flawed and really gets on my nerves. So you reduced costs of Districts by a mere 10%. That would have been good by itself. Then you offset it by making all buildings more expensive, by 10%. Where is the buff in that? You're just back to square one essentially in terms of production costs; which is the crux of the general dissatisfaction. What is the point? To mislead players into thinking Districts costs are cheaper now when essentially nothing has really changed?

While I get the complaint, taking cost off districts and adding it to buildings does have an effect (some of these were mentioned by other people).

- You can buy buildings, but not districts
- Districts provide adjacency bonuses
- Districts scale in production while buildings don't
- Buildings can't be 'locked'
- Lowers district repair costs
- Many civs have district cobstruction bonuses. Only a few construct buildings faster.

 

[Victoria]

hmmm, the start of CS displomacy and UN?
Also you cannot reset trade routes by left clicking a foreign unit

 

[Heinage]

cultural starting position link seems new...

Can someone confirm whether culturally linked starting position is actually a game setup option now?
This is something I liked from Civ III and have been missing ever since.

Unfortunately I can't check this myself because I am at work and probably won't be indulging in any Civ until tomorrow night

Really really exciting to start a new game with all these fantastic looking updates!

 

[trendy]

Have to echo the sentiment that these changes make the game even more war-dependent, and that's kind of sad... While not the best solution, in civ 5 at least war had the heavy offset of science/culture penalties for having more cities. War weariness isn't even a slap on the wrist. It's ALWAYS better to conquer more stuff, and now with settler cost increase it's pretty much the only way to efficiently build up your empire. Doubt it'll happen after seeing patches like this one, but some kind of increasing opportunity cost for conquest (and NOT for settling) would be really nice.

 

[TruthfulCake]

Some AI quirks I noticed after I played about 50 turns:

- Two AI leaders I met that are not my immediate neighbors wants to declare friendship regardless of their first impressions of me.
- An AI leader started his own proposal with "This is unacceptable!" and when I ask to make it more equitable, would happily accept the exact same deal.

Also, edge scrolling is still NOT fixed. Do the developers think that the current scrolling behavior is anywhere near acceptable? Also, plot tooltips still appear when I don't want it, such as when hovering over UI elements like the City Info Panel.

Solid patch with many interesting and much needed changes. I hope the outstanding issues will be fixed soon, or with the next DLC.

 

[Wingednosering]

Greece acropolis bonus
Why are you making one of the best civs in the game stronger? I guess its maybe to push people to play them peacefully more, but that doesn't make sense given some of the other changes.

The old Acropolis was one of the biggest balance issues in the game. Sure, maybe it makes the Greeks as a while a bit stronger, but the old Acropolis was actually worse than the generic theatre districts.

 

[Xoon]

Scythia and Kongo nerfs are both welcome.

• Added Restart button to regenerate the map
  
• Added the saving of game setup configurations to reuse when starting future games

long overdue as well. Awesome.

 

[Xoon]

Noooooo! to Proselytizer nerf! I loved that one (probably a good move, but still)

 

[nicki_boy777]

Everyone I meet is super-friendly initially very early on now?

Also Catherine of France has warned me against the use of nuclear weapons in 2600BC and I have diplo penalty with her over the use of nuclear weapons??! We haven't even got Stonehenge in the game...

 

[Disgustipated]

Seems the patch introduced more bugginess with the hidden agendas that usually don't activate until the appropriate tech is earned are showing up early.

Alliances are no longer a given. They used to accept alliances without question. But now Peter won't make one with me after declaring friendship.