The Fake News

[Berzerker]

While I find it hypocritical for Trump to complain about anything fake given his predilection for lying, he is right about the fake news... I'm a regular viewer of MSNBC, I use it for background noise and the deceit is constant. They show Trump talking about the 'fine' people who objected to removing a statue and renaming a park and then show interviews with neo-Nazis (Cantwell?) and 'question' how Trump could be calling them fine people.

The guy they interviewed even criticized Trump for letting his daughter marry a Jew, but Trump likes neo-Nazis? Is that the media narrative? Trump's base includes "deplorables", so he treads lightly around their toes. Opposition media knows this so they're using the violence in Virginia to drive a wedge between Trump and part of his base while attacking him along the way.

Course the media hypocrisy is noteworthy, had a group of people rallied to remove the statue and the KKK showed up and a brawl ensued, the media would have no problem identifying the catalyst. Neither would I... So, are people free to speak in this country or not? If someone is protesting, let them protest... Dont get in their faces with weapons and armor. After Trump's comment on Saturday I was quick to criticize him for blaming both sides, I can see why he did now.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

As an intelligent commentator on CNN said: if you are a "fine person" who goes out to protest the removal of a statue and you find yourself marching alongside a bunch of guys waving nazi flags you have two choices; either go home or turn in your 'fine person' card. Giving Trump's ridiculous claim that there were 'fine people on both sides' any credence at all is the 'fake news,' and your sharing of it says a lot about you.

 

[Farm Boy]

They can all have complimentary tear gas and clubs as far as I'm concerned. Since we missed that, how about some nutraloaf?

 

[Ryika]

The press as a whole did never, not once in history, live up to the reputation that they've spread about themselves. It is, and has always been, a tool of propaganda, that operates under the guise of neutrality, while using its ability to show you exactly what they want you to see, and leaving out exactly what you are not supposed to know, to lead you towards the opinion that they want you to have. Sometimes subtle, sometimes not so subtle. Thank God for the internet, where you actually can get most of the information, raw from the scene. (Which, unfortunately, most people are not very interested in, but at least you can get it now and see that most people are uninformed idiots who are just defending their side.)

So yeah, it's not a surprise that the media would create this narrative of the bad white supremacists beating up protesters, even though the police chief (or whatever his exact position is called - the guy who spoke to the press) said that it was parts of both groups that were fighting each other, supporting what Trump had said.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

I'm trying to fathom any circumstances whatsoever, in which a white supremacist/Nazi/other hate group member could ever be considered one of the "good guys."

 

[Timsup2nothin]

The press as a whole did never, not once in history, live up to the reputation that they've spread about themselves. It is, and has always been, a tool of propaganda, that operates under the guise of neutrality, while using its ability to show you exactly what they want you to see, and leaving out exactly what you are not supposed to know, to lead you towards the opinion that they want you to have. Sometimes subtle, sometimes not so subtle. Thank God for the internet, where you actually can get most of the information, raw from the scene. (Which, unfortunately, most people are not very interested in, but at least you can get it now and see that most people are uninformed idiots who are just defending their side.)

So yeah, it's not a surprise that the media would create this narrative of the bad white supremacists beating up protesters, even though the police chief (or whatever his exact position is called - the guy who spoke to the press) said that it was parts of both groups that were fighting each other, supporting what Trump had said.

The issue isn't "who threw the first punch." The issue is whether there is a moral equivalence between throwing punches to forward white supremacy and throwing punches to oppose white supremacy. I contend that there is no such moral equivalence. The President of the United States has stood up and pronounced that there is such moral equivalency, and the media has reported that he has done so.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I'm trying to fathom any circumstances whatsoever, in which a white supremacist/Nazi/other hate group member could ever be considered one of the "good guys."

Well, if you are white supremacist, which it is becoming rapidly apparent that Donald Trump is, then yes, they would appear to be the "good guys."

 

[Lexicus]

The press as a whole did never, not once in history, live up to the reputation that they've spread about themselves. It is, and has always been, a tool of propaganda, that operates under the guise of neutrality, while using its ability to show you exactly what they want you to see, and leaving out exactly what you are not supposed to know, to lead you towards the opinion that they want you to have.

Wtf is this cultural Marxist garbage.

Well, if you are white supremacist, which it is becoming rapidly apparent that Donald Trump is, then yes, they would appear to be the "good guys."

Rapidly becoming apparent? It should have been apparent since 1973- the year the federal government sued him for discriminating against black tenants in New York. I would accept when he came out with all that birther stuff too, that was the obvious signal that he is a white supremacist and that was what clued me in since regrettably I did not learn about the housing discrimination stuff until last year.

 

[Farm Boy]

The issue isn't "who threw the first punch." The issue is whether there is a moral equivalence between throwing punches to forward white supremacy and throwing punches to oppose white supremacy. I contend that there is no such moral equivalence. The President of the United States has stood up and pronounced that there is such moral equivalency, and the media has reported that he has done so.

There isn't. But there is mob action, and I don't want anyone who engages in mob action free in my country. Call me a statist in this regard, but ring out the apparatus and bash them until they go home or stop moving.

 

[Ryika]

The President of the United States has stood up and pronounced that there is such moral equivalency, and the media has reported that he has done so.

No, master, he has not. Quite the opposite, has has said specifically that he is not making moral judgements about these groups when he calls out the violence, but is condemning their actions on that day.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

No, master, he has not. Quite the opposite, has has said specifically that he is not making moral judgements about these groups when he calls out the violence, but is condemning their actions on that day.

"Not making a moral judgement" is proclaiming a moral equivalency.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

There isn't. But there is mob action, and I don't want anyone who engages in mob action free in my country. Call me a statist in this regard, but ring out the apparatus and bash them until they go home or stop moving.

I'm not going to call you statist, but isn't resorting to the state just the ultimate expression of mob action?

 

[Farm Boy]

Sure. But I'm not a Quaker so I don't find pacifistic hand wringing in the face of mob action that compelling.

 

[Lexicus]

"Not making a moral judgement" is proclaiming a moral equivalency.

It also seems like "good people on both sides" is patently a moral judgment.

has has said specifically that he is not making moral judgements about these groups when he calls out the violence, but is condemning their actions on that day.

I find it interesting that you have apparently not yet learned that everything Donald Trump says is either psychotic or a lie.

Sure. But I'm not a Quaker so I don't find pacifistic hand wringing in the face of mob action that compelling.

"mob action" being, I suppose, your clever attempt at emulating Trump and drawing an implicit moral equivalency between the Nazis and those fighting them?

 

[Farm Boy]

No, and it's stupid for you to think so if you think so.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Sure. But I'm not a Quaker so I don't find pacifistic hand wringing in the face of mob action that compelling.

Me either. I'm fine with attacking the mob directly, with or without a bigger mob. White supremacy is wrong. Whether it is just an anonymous basement dweller invading our community here, or a mob formed to march against an American city it is wrong. Opposing it is not wrong. Period.

 

[Ryika]

"Not making a moral judgement" is proclaiming a moral equivalency.

No master, it is not. It is just condemning the political violence that happened on that evening as what it is, political violence. Their actions ARE equivalent, even if the moral framework that has created them is not.

I find it interesting that you have apparently not yet learned that everything Donald Trump says is either psychotic or a lie.

Even if that is true, the statement that he has not said that, when he has actually said that, is still incorrect.

 

[Farm Boy]

White supremacy is wrong. Whether it is just an anonymous basement dweller invading our community here, or a mob formed to march against an American city it is wrong. Opposing it is not wrong. Period.

No, it's not wrong. Opposing white supremacy is a damned obligation. But it's not "period." There are now a lot of hurt people, one dead person, and there's a bunch of people, near as I can tell, that need incarceration.

 

[Lexicus]

Opposing it is not wrong. Period.

Well, I (of all people) am going to pull you back from here. Killing the entire white population of the US, for instance, would technically be opposing white supremacy, but it would also be very wrong, at least in my view.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

No master, it is not. It is just condemning the political violence that happened on that evening as what it is, political violence. Their actions ARE equivalent, even if the moral framework that has created them is not.

Ignoring that moral framework is creating a moral equivalence. It may not be creating a moral equivalence if it is you or me sitting in a criminal justice class and discussing the legal issues. But if you are the elected president of the United States speaking on behalf of the United States you don't get to just ignore those moral frameworks.