[GS] Phoenicia Discussion Thread

[IvoryPavane]

At the end of the day her bonuses boil down to more settlers, more trade routes, and more naval units, but nothing she has is BETTER than anyone else's or changes the gameplay in a significant way (apart from the capital moving thing which right now seems more like a gimmick). We'll see, I hope I'm pleasantly surprised when I play her.

I disagree with the last part here. I think moving capitals could be gimmicky but it forms a core part of her USP. With it, she can:

— get new cities online quickly (in combination with her numerous trade routes)
— forward settle aggressively anywhere in the map
— render loyalty a non-concern
— cause loyalty issues in other Civs
— bring production and suzerein bonuses to any city

I think you are right though in that she doesn’t have anything particularly unique herself, but the overall is greater than the sum of her parts, and allow her to play in quite a unique way.

The challenge with Dido and Phonecia is you have to take a big step back and say things like “ahh so if I can settle without loyalty, then I can take advantage of XYZ” (for example), which is less obviously powerful than automatic theming.

Additionally, it’s more difficult to do when we don’t have the full picture on how the game is changing.

Also I guess I must be greedy <snip> because I rarely have less than 10 cities in any game of Civ. (though I play immortal max, I don’t care too much for deity)

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[Ziad]

Beware, beware the Daugther of the Sea

Bahaha this is what I thought of.

 

[Isengardtom]

Just like with the Maori, Casa de Contratacion would be a good wonder with them for the bonuses to other continents.

 

[Ziad]

Another benefit I just thought of.

Don't have to build all capital-only wonders in one place.

 

[Josephias]

My big mystery is why the first look didn't have Phoenicia's theme music, surely its ready. Is there something to it or just an oversight?

I think we Will know tomorrow: if the First Listen video is posted, probably it is an oversight. If the First Listen video is not posted, we can safe bet they are preparing something about the theme for the stream.

 

[MarigoldRan]

They stink, except on water maps.

 

[Pietato]

They are EXTREMELY weak. Might even be Georgia tier.

 

[gozon]

They are way better than Georgia for the cheap harbor alone

 

[PhoenicianGold]

They are EXTREMELY weak. Might even be Georgia tier.

Watch yourself. Tamar is my girl. She's always got my back.

(If only because she can't do anything else)

 

[Pietato]

Watch yourself. Tamar is my girl. She's always got my back.

(If only because she can't do anything else)

Nice name

 

[PhoenicianGold]

Nice name

Thank ya. I've been waiting for this day for too long. I am ridiculously stoked that we got Phoenicia instead of Carthage.

 

[UWHabs]

Another benefit I just thought of.

Don't have to build all capital-only wonders in one place.

Other than Apadana, which others are cap-only?

 

[Duuk]

Well thank goodness for the expanded religions mod (which has Canaanism) because I'm fairly certain Phoenicia will default to Islam and that will trigger me considering its religious history (have nothing against Islam though just to be clear).

Phoenician being based in Lebanon they should really be default Christian, tbh.

Of course, that could be my "I live in Michigan and grew up around a massive Lebanese Christian / Iraqi Christian / Arab Muslim / Best Shwarma outside the Middle East" city (why yes, I know you're jealous) showing.

(Shout out to my Dearborn friends)

 

[IvoryPavane]

They are EXTREMELY weak. Might even be Georgia tier.

These in-depth analysis really does add a lot to the discussion lol

 

[IvoryPavane]

They stink, except on water maps.

While I don’t agree with you overall, it seems that most coastal based Civs would fare better on maps with more water on them, surely?

 

[Pietato]

These in-depth analysis really does add a lot to the discussion lol

Everything has pretty much been said. They feel like half a civ, almost as if one of their bonuses is missing.

 

[Zaarin]

Phoenician being based in Lebanon they should really be default Christian, tbh.

Dido will be random, like other leaders whose religions aren't in the game. I do hope Historical Religions is updated promptly so that Dido favors Canaanism, Pachacuti favors Intiism, etc., however.

Of course, that could be my "I live in Michigan and grew up around a massive Lebanese Christian / Iraqi Christian / Arab Muslim / Best Shwarma outside the Middle East" city (why yes, I know you're jealous)

I'm extremely jealous. My city has all the best ethnic food...except Middle Eastern. For that we have a mediocre Egyptian café that doesn't even serve fresh food. Middle Eastern food is the best. I've joked before that God knew precisely where to incarnate to get the best food.

 

[God of Kings]

If Phoenicia can move capitals, for Domination victory, it would be based on her first capital or else it would be whack-a-mole.

 

[IvoryPavane]

Everything has pretty much been said. They feel like half a civ, almost as if one of their bonuses is missing.

I mean this thread has literally been all over the place, between “best waifu broken civ” to “literally unplayable”, and half the fun is debating it.

Until the game is out, all we can do is speculate on how strong the Civ is based on Rise and Fall mechanic.

My stance remains that I think she can be quite powerful with the right strategy and supporting her core abilities with outside support, and I’ve yet to see anything to dissuade me from this.

She’s similar to the Inca and the Cree, where they get bonuses to creating an infrastructure as opposed to overt bonuses, which I feel like are possibly more popular (at least from a cursory reading of the forums here).

It’s hard to debate her merits, or lack of, based on “she’s trash, cuz reasons” though

 

[cknwo]

Does anyone know how forward settling a neighbor civ, assuming neighbor civ's citites aren't too far apart (4-6 tiles)from each other ,will react? What about making your capital the forward settle? I heard loyalty is based on mainly population. Assuming same continent of course.