All Things Star Wars

[Laurana Kanan]

At some point soon, we really need to stop with the spoiler tags. The movie's been out for more than two weeks now.

Spoiler :

That wasn't an organised navy per se, it was essentially a mass protest which overwhelmed the FO fleet with sheer numbers: a zerg-rush if you like.

Spoiler :

That was Tak's point, regardless of whether the resistance fleet was "organized" or not. They could've taken out the weakened FO fleet any time they wanted, but instead waited until it was reinforced with hundreds or thousands of Xyston class SDs.

Spoiler :

AFAIK, in the SW Universe, most ships of any substantial size are generally all at least lightly armed for defence against space-pirates, etc.

Spoiler :

That's the operative word - "lightly". So a group of starfighters and lightly armed freighters are able to take out all the SDs? Either the Final Order is completely incompetent, or the resistance plot armor is thick.

Spoiler :

Same way Poe et al. got there: Rey broadcast the safe route to the rest of the Resistance, who presumably passed it on to Lando, who brought everyone else.

Spoiler :

I agree it's implied, however, according to Finn & Rose, "It's a mess out there. Magnetic cross fields. Gravity wells, solar winds." Plus there's the two scenes of Rey and then later the small Resistence force en route to Exegol zig-zagging back and forth @ sublight speed in a confined corridor. Granted once they exit the red nebula, or whatever it is surrounding Exegol, they jump to hyperspace again for the final approach. So I guess conceivably all the other reinforcement ships coming with Lando could have done something similar, but it strains credibility that a fleet of ships that size could do so quickly, jump, and arrive near simultaneously @ Exegol.

I have more of a problem that all these Resistance ships that were able to follow Rey's course marker signals through all that junk to Exegol and then have no trouble deploying and engaging the Final Order fleet. But, all the Xyston SDs have to rely on a single navigation tower to broadcast their source of navigation signal in order to deploy. First, broadcast from a tower on the planet, and then later switched over to Pryde's Steadfast. Without this signal all these ships are basically just sitting ducks. If a single ship can be used as a navigational beacon then why can't every SD be able to broadcast and utilize that information? Why didn't the Final Order set their own course marker signals? Even if they couldn't deploy the fleet you'd think at least the first row of SDs could have fired their superlasers into the Resistance fleet and took out a sizable chunk of them.

Even though it's no longer canon, you'd think after all these years of secretly planning and building, Palpatine would have multiple Golan Space Defense Platforms or similar defending his darn base of operations. I mean this is the guy who secretly orchestrated a takeover of the Republic in 15 years or so, but so completely fails to protect his own assets and develop contingency plans. Whatever happened to the, "Everything that has transpired has done so according to my design," and "Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen," guy?

And, for that matter why does Palpatine broadcast to the galaxy (in a Fortnite message no less ) that, "Hey! Everybody. Just want to let you all know in advance that I'm not really dead and that the Sith have been working on this huge revenge plan against the galaxy that we're just about ready to implement. Carry on." /s

 

[Lord Shadow]

Finn used a lightsaber twice in TFA. At two pretty important scenes FTM.

The main 3 characters in the ST were developed well enough... easily just as well as the big 3 in the OT.

I'm finding that for the most part, people's complaints to the contrary are usually just retconned excuses for disliking a film they've already decided they dislike. It may not be this in your specific case, but the fact that you missed such a key detail like Finn having TWO epic lightsaber battles in TFA rather than one is a perfect example of you just not caring about/ paying close enough attention to the character enough to be in a position to say his character was "under-developed". How would you know? You clearly weren't paying much attention to him.

The second clue to make me conclude this is how you seem so ambivalent... to the point of essentially mocking (with a shrug smiley) the fact that Finn is black. It makes me question whether, perhaps even subconsciously... that's the reason you (the royal you) don't care about/ pay attention to/ personally connect to the Finn character... which would explain why you're missing important details about the character and in turn, feel the character is "underdeveloped".

About the shrugging at Star Wars needing black characters. Its nothing to shrug at when you're a black fan of Star Wars who grew up with the all white cast, finally, after 30 years getting to see your kids watch a Star Wars with a main character who looks like them. Finn was very meaningful to me and my family.

I think that's part of why so many white dudes my age were so worked up about Luke in TLJ. Luke looks like them and so he was their guy, who they personally connected to. So his portrayal was personal to them.

Yeah... I really don't have any anti-black biases a USian might have. I don't have anything against Finn for being black, nor think a black character is necessarily underdeveloped due to their race. That's pretty nonsensical.

I understand black characters are particularly meaningful to a black audience, but you shouldn't be content with just the race being represented. They should be well-developed characters as well.

So he used a lightsaber twice, big whoop. Am I supposed to be content a random guy can effectively fight a trained Force user with a specialist weapon that's meant to be extremely dangerous to the wielder without the right training and attunement? Or am I supposed to accept he's Force-sensitive (something otherwise thoroughly ignored throughout the new trilogy) and had some secret, off-screen training?

His character development during the movies still seems aimless, and more one-dimensional than Poe's. Not that I find the latter's last-minute reveals about a scoundrel past and an old flame particularly meaningful. Waste of a good actress, by the way, not unlike Captain Phasma.

I didn't at all went to see Rise of Skywalker with a bad disposition: I'm one of those who actually liked The Last Jedi for trying to do its own thing after an Episode IV remake, and was thoroughly disappointed to see the makers attempt to placate the vocal minority of anti-TLJ grognards reshuffling the plot and characters for ROS. I was hoping they'd continue to defy the formula instead of providing a schizophrenic, confusing mess of a conclusion, with forced clichés and pointless fanservice (dare I say fanslaving, with all that needless placating).

 

[r16]

travel issues to uber secret hideout where like an entire fleet awaits the hero the spacehorse charge...

And, for that matter why does Palpatine broadcast to the galaxy (in a Fortnite message no less ) that, "Hey! Everybody. Just want to let you all know in advance that I'm not really dead and that the Sith have been working on this huge revenge plan against the galaxy that we're just about ready to implement. Carry on." /s

love will find a way and it will truly bug the old core fans , whom the story group listens , especially behind the new management's back . It will be like yuge insult if the evil dictator turns out to be unkişllable by the old . Let's keep this a bit longer and we will also see how Rey was unable to kill , because she is a she in the fullest sense , too .


edit : nobody is actually doing any fanservice . They are just headlesschicken type going around . If you are not mine , you will be of the soil , goes this old cliche in Turkish movies , the guy to kill the girl if they can't marry

 

[BenitoChavez]

Just came across this: https://www.reddit.com/r/saltiertha.../heres_what_ive_been_told_from_a_source_that/

Consider it very spoiler heavy regarding TRoS. Stuff about JJ Abrams and Disney meddling where it shouldn't.

So Disney purposefully sabotaged episode IX in order to make JJ look bad, so that DC would maybe not hire him, which prevents him from potentially making a successful DC film to compete with Marvel.

Wow. Either that is some next level genius corporate manipulation or the dumbest thing ever. One would think that by making the best product possible, especially with a franchise as bankable as Star Wars, would be the simplest and easiest way of beating your competitors. But instead they went for screwing themselves in the present to maybe screwing their competitors more in the future.

 

[Sommerswerd]

I understand black characters are particularly meaningful to a black audience, but you shouldn't be content with just the race being represented. They should be well-developed characters as well. So he used a lightsaber twice, big whoop. Am I supposed to be content a random guy can effectively fight a trained Force user with a specialist weapon that's meant to be extremely dangerous to the wielder without the right training and attunement? Or am I supposed to accept he's Force-sensitive (something otherwise thoroughly ignored throughout the new trilogy) and had some secret, off-screen training?

As I already explained to you... Finn was well developed... you just weren't paying attention to him, because you dismissed him right from the outset as a token black character... and you've once again demonstrated that by describing him as "just the race being represented". And its rich hearing you try to tell me how I should feel as a black person about the presentation of a black character. You didn't give "big whoop"... your words... about him so I shouldn't either? You really think you're qualified in any way to determine how meaningful a black character is or should be to black people??

Dude just quit while you're ahead... this reply actually makes you sound way worse than your original post and basically confirms everything that I was previously speculating about your positions on Finn as a black character... complete with the textbook whining and complaining about him being force sensitive and having the "skill" to wield a lightsaber... Just... SMFH.

 

[Thorvald of Lym]

Just came across this: https://www.reddit.com/r/saltiertha.../heres_what_ive_been_told_from_a_source_that/

Consider it very spoiler heavy regarding TRoS. Stuff about JJ Abrams and Disney meddling where it shouldn't.

So Disney purposefully sabotaged episode IX in order to make JJ look bad, so that DC would maybe not hire him, which prevents him from potentially making a successful DC film to compete with Marvel.

The absolute maniacs. They actually made me apologetic to Abrams.

 

[Lord Shadow]

As I already explained to you... Finn was well developed... you just weren't paying attention to him, because you dismissed him right from the outset as a token black character... and you've once again demonstrated that by describing him as "just the race being represented". And its rich hearing you try to tell me how I should feel as a black person about the presentation of a black character. You didn't give "big whoop"... your words... about him so I shouldn't either? You really think you're qualified in any way to determine how meaningful a black character is or should be to black people??

Dude just quit while you're ahead... this reply actually makes you sound way worse than your original post and basically confirms everything that I was previously speculating about your positions on Finn as a black character... complete with the textbook whining and complaining about him being force sensitive and having the "skill" to wield a lightsaber... Just... SMFH.

Stating something isn't explaining it. You merely corrected me saying he used a lightsaber twice instead of once.

If you think Finn was well developed and good representation, well, who am I to argue with personal opinions.

Character underdevelopment issues are rampant in this new trilogy, from my point of view, so Finn is obviously not the only one affected.

Let's just agree to disagree on what constitutes a well-developed character.

 

[Takhisis]

I was hinting at this in a previous post concerning who should get the blame for the ST. Depending on how much of this is accurate (we'll probably never know for sure), I really think that this was all an over-reaction to TLJ & Ranger Solo. I think Disney execs, after giving considerable leeway to RJ for the TLJ, probably felt that after fan reaction to that movie & Ranger Solo losing money, they needed to intervene and ended up over-correcting to please the fan base.

Leeway? Space astronaut Leia Poppins was imposed by Kathleen Kennedy (or with her approval) onto TLJ to make it ‘obvious’ that Leia had Force Powers because they think that viewers are idiots.
Ryan Johnson himself said that he thought ‘the Last Jedi’ was in the singular, referring to Luke Skywalker (which would be completely consistent with Yoda telling Luke ‘the last of the Jedi you will be’ in the OT) but in non-English markets it was explicitly translated to plural forms (Az utolsó Jedik, Los últimos Jedi, etc.) by Disney's order.

Well, in all honesty, SW has always been a vehicle for selling merchandise. That was the genius of GL and how he negotiated to retain merchandising rights with FOX. The PT & OT had incredible unique designs ripe for merchandise, and other than during the heyday of TPM, never felt like an overt cash grab. With the ST the designs have largely been lazy, repetitive, & uninspired. (I do like the look of the Sith Troopers including the Fleet Technicians, the Knights of Ren, & Zorii Bliss. Too bad their parts are small and largely inconsequential.)

Yes, I know. Nearly all the additions in this new trilogy feel like cash grabs by now.

Spoiler :

You're right. General Pryde does say, "Legions of Star Destroyers," and, "The Sith Fleet will increase our resources 10,000 fold." That doesn't necessarily translate to 10,000 capital ships, but in my mind the implication is there. I guess it depends on Pryde's definition of Legions in regards to ships & resources. I still don't understand why at least some of them didn't try to fire their axial superlasers into the oncoming Resistance fleet.

As I said, the ships' lasers were displayed as being mounted on the underbellies of the ships. So they could have been fired… at the planet's surface?

So Disney purposefully sabotaged episode IX in order to make JJ look bad, so that DC would maybe not hire him, which prevents him from potentially making a successful DC film to compete with Marvel.

Wow. Either that is some next level genius corporate manipulation or the dumbest thing ever. One would think that by making the best product possible, especially with a franchise as bankable as Star Wars, would be the simplest and easiest way of beating your competitors. But instead they went for screwing themselves in the present to maybe screwing their competitors more in the future.

It is Disney. They're audiovisual media's Microsoft.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

So Disney purposefully sabotaged episode IX in order to make JJ look bad, so that DC would maybe not hire him, which prevents him from potentially making a successful DC film to compete with Marvel.

Wow. Either that is some next level genius corporate manipulation or the dumbest thing ever. One would think that by making the best product possible, especially with a franchise as bankable as Star Wars, would be the simplest and easiest way of beating your competitors. But instead they went for screwing themselves in the present to maybe screwing their competitors more in the future.

In the world of 'bankable franchise' everything but Marvel is a support unit. If you tried to crank out 23 Star Wars films in a decade half of them wouldn't sell for a dime. "Look at our fanbase! We can feed them a trilogy every decade or two" just doesn't compete.

 

[Synobun]

In the world of 'bankable franchise' everything but Marvel is a support unit. If you tried to crank out 23 Star Wars films in a decade half of them wouldn't sell for a dime. "Look at our fanbase! We can feed them a trilogy every decade or two" just doesn't compete.

To be fair, Marvel could do that because the movies released were good. And there was an actual overarching storyline which, if not actually written before they got started, the writing team was good enough to make it seem as though it was. Marvel also, largely, was given over to a direct creative lead, and it's definitely paid dividends. This is different than Star Wars which has had executive meddling, intra-production feuds, and unclear hierarchy. I feel Star Wars has the capacity to be like Marvel when it comes to the screen, but it would require Disney backing off and handing over control of the franchise to someone like Filoni, or Favreau, or at least someone who understands the craft and doesn't manipulate it solely for short-term gains as an executive board would.

 

[Takhisis]

FWIW the last two strips of Darths and Droids have made me laugh outright.

 

[Lord Shadow]

As I said, the ships' lasers were displayed as being mounted on the underbellies of the ships. So they could have been fired… at the planet's surface?

That underbelly thing is a bit of a non-issue, just like the siege dreadnought thing of TLJ. Least of all in space, but even in atmosphere, it's just a matter of pulling up a bit or gaining some kind of altitude advantage.

Spoiler :

Not that that battle had any kind of meaningful tactics, let alone verticality.

 

[Takhisis]

That underbelly thing is a bit of a non-issue, just like the siege dreadnought thing of TLJ. Least of all in space, but even in atmosphere, it's just a matter of pulling up a bit or gaining some kind of altitude advantage.

Which (your spoiler aside) was not possible, seeing as how the ships couldn't even take off on their own, and I don't even know how they could have operated upside down.

 

[BenitoChavez]

In the world of 'bankable franchise' everything but Marvel is a support unit. If you tried to crank out 23 Star Wars films in a decade half of them wouldn't sell for a dime. "Look at our fanbase! We can feed them a trilogy every decade or two" just doesn't compete.

Sure Marvel is worth more than Star Wars but both are about as close to a sure thing as there is in the movie industry. Why sacrifice Star Wars for some hypothetical that might not even happen?

As a wise man once wrote

Obi-Wan: But Master Yoda said I should be mindful of the future.
Qui-Gon: But not at the expense of the moment.

 

[Lord Shadow]

Which (your spoiler aside) was not possible, seeing as how the ships couldn't even take off on their own, and I don't even know how they could have operated upside down.

Sure, it wouldn't be possible taking into account that nonsense restriction. After all, it's extremely difficult to make a spaceship go up... It requires supremely advanced navigation.

Spoiler :

I'm not sure we're even talking about taking off. The destroyers were just floating there.

 

[Thorvald of Lym]

And now for something completely different (spoilers eps. 1–3):

 

[Takhisis]

Sure, it wouldn't be possible taking into account that nonsense restriction. After all, it's extremely difficult to make a spaceship go up... It requires supremely advanced navigation.

Of the type that needs a DirecTV satellite dish to operate?

 

[Sommerswerd]

Started writing much of the following before reading all the follow-up posts, so pre-emptive apologies for X-posts/ repetition...I always figured it was to increase the rate and spread of fire compared to the Z-95 'Headhunter' (2 wing-mounted cannons), which (in original canon) the XW design (4 wing-mounted cannons) was commissioned to replace.

(Mind you, if I'd been working for Incom, I would have given the XW shorter wings which opened wider, so the attack-position looked more like a multiplication-symbol than an upper-case 'X'...)

Spoiler Bitter experience in-game... :

A TIE fighter's total occupied volume is mostly empty space, though, so with its wide spread of laser-fire, an average XW pilot — i.e. me! — will still have difficulty hitting the TIE's superstructure from directly astern — to increase the hit-probability on the pilot-bubble, the XW crosshairs have to be aimed at the wing — but when a TIE is flying at >45° to an XW flightpath, they're so fast that the deflection needed for a successful hit is huge.

Or one must use the Force...

Spoiler For Takh's spoilers :

That wasn't an organised navy per se, it was essentially a mass protest which overwhelmed the FO fleet with sheer numbers: a zerg-rush if you like.

...but that was kind of the message of the whole movie, wasn't it? That tyrants only prosper when their victims are too scared to act co-operatively against them — but that evil can be defeated, provided that the oppressed (=we) are willing to risk their (=our) own safety for the greater good.AFAIK, in the SW Universe, most ships of any substantial size are generally all at least lightly armed for defence against space-pirates, etc.

The Falcon is 'only' a freighter, after all — as was/is the Ghost in Rebels — but both designs are fitted with laser-turrets as standard, AFAIK.

Spoiler For Syn's spoiler :

Same way Poe et al. got there: Rey broadcast the safe route to the rest of the Resistance, who presumably passed it on to Lando, who brought everyone else.

What bugs me, though, is how Lando managed to assemble that enormous fleet from all over Core worlds in such a short time: the Falcon may be the fastest ship in the Galaxy, but it's still not Santa Claus' time-travelling sleigh!

Santa doesn't time travel, the sled just goes really, reeeeeally fast and he has a time-slowing/stoppage tool.

 

[Takhisis]

You don't need a sled, I travel through time at about 1 second per second. (cue reference to the sloth-in-a-car in Zootopia)

 

[Laurana Kanan]

As I said, the ships' lasers were displayed as being mounted on the underbellies of the ships. So they could have been fired… at the planet's surface?

The axial superlasers are pointed straight ahead not down so I don't see how they'd be hitting Exegol's surface. The Derriphan had to angle it's superlaser downward in order to destroy Kijimi.

Which (your spoiler aside) was not possible, seeing as how the ships couldn't even take off on their own, and I don't even know how they could have operated upside down.

I don't really understand what you mean here. The SDs had already broken through Exegol's surface and taken off so to speak. They were basically just hovering in formation above the surface. I think what Poe was referring to in the briefing was them being able to completely leave the planet's atmosphere, which I think is a silly restriction. Capital ships somehow can't even navigate off the planet, but starfighters, freighters, and other small ships can somehow navigate perfectly. In any event, whether the Xystons were positioned correctly to fire into the oncoming Resistance fleet isn't really determinable by the footage. But honestly, how hard would it have been to reorient their ships towards a massive incoming fleet. The whole sequence is just silly with questionable tactics and oddly contrived restrictions.