"Rise of Asia" take 3 - "The Conquest Dynasties"

[Ogedei_the_Mad]

That the "Rise of Asia" project folded before it even began was quite a disappointment and so I've decided to take on this project where SoG and Shirou left off.

The time period will be much more focused into somewhere around the 9th to 15th centuries, a highly competitive era including a dangerous deadlock in East Asia that lasts for centuries until it is broken by the mighty Mongol hordes and the beginnings of a golden age of commerce in Southeast Asia. I felt that spanning 1300 years is far too ambitious considering that most on the modding team have never actually produced a complete large-scale mod. Also adding to the simplification is that there will be some AI-only "minor" civs that are pretty much left unflavored; for the time being the project will focus only on the major active players.

Anyways, these are what I have in mind currently:

Time Period: circa 800s CE (beginnings of an era of competition) - 1400s CE (twilight of the Mongol hegemony)

Civilizations
East Asia
*East Asian Culture Group: East Asia is fairly well-developed with a large population, excellent economy, and a highly advanced navy. The Chinese, Jurchen, and Korean civs have the advantage of having unique gunpowder artillery units early on. However, with the exception of the Jurchens, they may face stiff military competition from the Steppe and Himalaya civs, which all have access to excellent Steppe Cavalry.
Tang-chao - Capital: Chang'an, Leader: Emperor Xianzong, UU: Tang Heavy Cavalry
Shilla - Capital: Geumseong, Leader: Wang Wonseong, UU: Hwarang
Nippon - Capital: Heian, Leader: Regent Fujiwara no Michinaga, UU: Samurai
Dai Viet - Capital: Dai La, Leader: King Dinh Bo Linh, UU: Viet Crossbowman
Jurchens - Capital: Huining Fu, Leader: Emperor Wanyan Aguda, UU: Jurchen Cavalry
Ezo [non-playable] - Leader: Chief Aterui
Ryukyukoku [non-playable] - Capital: Shuri, Leader: King Sho-hashi
Tamna [non-playable] - Capial: Jeju, Leader: Seonju Chungoyeol
Balhae [non-playable] - Capital: Sangyong, Leader: Dae Joyeong

Steppes / Himalayas
*Steppes Culture Group: The empires of the steppes and Himalayas have early access to Steppe horses, which enable them to build powerful Steppe Cavalry, the finest and most powerful horsemen. Their starting locations with the exception of Xi-xia is fairly un-developed, however.
Great Mongol Nation - Capital: Karakorum, Leader: Khagan Mongke, UU: Keshik
Bod - Capital: Lhasa, Leader: Lama Drogon Chogyal Phagpa, UU: Khampa Horseman
Liao - Capital: Shangjing, Leader: Emperor Yelu Abaoji, UU: Yila Tribesman
Xi-xia - Capital: Xingqing, Leader: Li Deming, UU: Tangut Raider
Uighur Khanate [non-playable] - Capital: Ordu Biliq, Leader: Qaghan Quttugh Bilga Kol

Southeast Asia
*Southeast Asian Culture Group: Southeast Asia is blessed with spices and early-ripening rice, which means that while they initially are not as well-developed as East Asia, they can reap economic benefits early on.
Mataram - Capital: Yogyakarta, Leader: Raja Sanjaya, UU: Bugis Mercenary
Bagan - Capital: Bagan, Leader: Anawrahta, UU: Kywan Worker
Haribhunjaya - Capital: Haripunjaya, Leader: Queen Jamadevi, UU: Mon War Elephant
Kambujadesa - Capital: Angkor, Leader: Jayavarman VII, UU: Pha'ak Man
Sukhothai - Capital: Sukhothai, Leader: Pho Khun Si Indrathit, UU: Two Swords Warrior
Srivijaya - Capital: Palembang, Leader: Maharajah Balapuitra, UU: Malay Djhong
Champa [non-playable] - Capital: Vijaya, Leader: King Indravarman
Nanzhao - Capital: Taihe, Leader: King Pileguo, UU:

South Asia
*South Asian Culture Group: South Asia is just as well-developed as East Asia and boasts many valuable resources. They do not have the military advantages of East Asian civs, but they can easily become economic powerhouses.
Chola Empire - Capital: Kaveripattinam, Leader: Sembiyan Mahadevi, UU:
Pala Empire - Capital: , Leader: King Mahipala I, UU:
Cheras [non-playable]
Rashtrakutras - Capital: Achalapura, Leader: Emperor Govinda III
Pratihara [non-playable] - Capital: Ujjain, Leader: King Najabhata II

City Improvements
Granary - doubles city growth
Shrine - +1 happiness, +2 culture
Magistrate - reduces corruption
Tax Office - +50% trade revenue, -2 happiness; requires Magistrate
Stele - increases resistance to propaganda
City Walls - increases city defense
Barracks - veteran ground units
Corvee Labor Camp - increases production by 50%, -2 happiness
City Guard - reduces corruption, -1 happiness
Library - +50% research, +2 culture
Marketplace - +50% trade revenue
Luxuries Market - +50% luxuries, +1 culture
Sawmill - +25% production; requires Timber
Stone Mason -+25% production; requires Stone
Artisan's Shop - +25% production; requires Clay
Harbor - enables water trade; +1 food in water tiles
Shipwright - veteran ship units
Herbalist - allows city size 2; requires Medicinial Herbs
Temple - +2 happiness, +3 culture; requires Timber and Stone
Monastery - +2 happiness, +50% research, +3 culture; requires Temple; requires Copper
Theatre - +3 happiness, +3 culture; requires Timber
Execution Site -reduces corruption, increases propaganda resistance, -1 happiness
Tavern - +1 happiness, +1 culture; requires Wine
Theatre - +2 happiness, +2 culture; requires Timber
Gardens - +1 happiness, reduces pollution
Pleasure District - +2 happiness, +2 culture; requires Silk and Wine
Teahouse - +1 happiness, +1 culture; requires Tea
Lacquerware Workshop - +1 happiness, +1 culture; requires Lacquer
Ginseng Merchant - +50% trade, requires Ginseng
Rice Merchant - increases food in water-producing tiles; requires Early-ripening Rice, must be built on coast
Cotton Spinner - +25% production; requires Cotton
Silk Weaver - +1 happiness, +1 culture; requires Silk
University - +50% research, +3 culture; requires Timber and Stone
Prison Labor Camp - increases production by 50%, -2 happiness
Citadel - increases city defense; requires Stone
Baths - cleans population pollution, +1 happiness, +1 culture
Printers' Shop - +50% research, +1 happiness, +3 culture
Trade Port - increases water-based trade revenue

Great Wonders
The Civil Service Examination - puts a magistrate in all cities
Potala Palace - doubles effectiveness of monasteries
Byodo-in Temple - +1 happiness in all cities
Lingyin Monastery - doubles effectiveness of temples
Nalanda University - doubles research in host city
Prambanan - puts a temple in all cities
The Silk Road - +5% to treasury, gives 2 free techs; requires 6 marketplaces, requires Silk
The Jikji - puts a library in all cities
Su Song's Astronomical Clock - doubles research in host city
Wayang Kulit - +6 happiness in host city (*this is also buildable for East Asian civs because the Chinese also had shadow puppet theatre)

Small Wonders
Jingdezhen Porcelain Artisans - +100% production; requires Clay and Timber
Forbidden Palace - acts as second capital
Imperial Mint - increases trade in all trade-producing tiles; requires Copper
Secret Guard - functions as "Secret Police" HQ, -2 happiness in host city

Specialists
Entertainer - +1 happiness
Alchemist - +3 research
Merchant - +3 trade
Civil Servant - +2 production
City Guard - reduces corruption by 2

Special Units
*Special Units require certain resources that are specific to certain regions or are auto-produced by wonders.
Steppe Heavy Cavalry - requires Steppe Horses
War Elephant - requires Elephants

Strategic Resources
*Some Strategic Resources operate as "raw materials" for "finished goods" structures, which produce income and population happiness. This might seem a bit unbalancing at first, but several important city improvements in the mod will cause some unhappiness as an offset.
Timber - +1 Production
Stone - +1 Production
Horses - +1 Production
Iron - +2 Production
Copper - +1 Production, +1 Trade
Clay - +1 Production
Steppe Horses (Steppe lands only) - +1 Production, +1 Trade
Elephants (South and Southeast Asia only) - +1 Production, +1 Trade
Nutmeg and Cloves (Mataram and Moluccas Islands only) - +1 Food, +3 Trade
Lacquer - +3 Trade
Cotton - +2 Trade
Sandalwood (South and Southeast Asia only) +3 Trade
Medicinal Herbs - +1 Food, +1 Trade
Ginseng (Korea only) - +3 Trade
Early-Ripening Rice (SE Asia only) - +3 Food, +1 Production

Luxuries
Exotic Animals (South and Southeast Asia only) - +1 Food, +1 Trade
Spices - +1 Food, +2 Trade
Tea - +1 Production, +1 Trade
Furs - +1 Trade
Silk - +2 Trade
Incense - +1 Trade
Precious Stones - +3 Trade
Wines - +1 Trade

Bonus Resources
Rice - +3 Food
Wheat - +3 Food
Millet (Northern China, Korea, and Japan only) - +2 Food
Tropical Fruit (Southern China, Southeast Asia, and South Asia only) - +2 Food
Silver (China and Japan only) - +3 Trade
Gold - +4 Trade
Game - +2 Food

Concepts
The Spice Trade - Nutmeg and Cloves will be strategic resources available only to Southeast Asia. Those with access to this resource can construct associated trade structures that increase trade revenue, representing the early Southeast Asian monopoly on spices.
"Finished Goods" Luxuries - Lacquer and Clay serve as strategic resources required to construct certain buildings that produce happiness and culture.
Regional Resources - Certain regions will have access to certain resources that enable them to build certain things early on. For example, the Chinese, Japanese, and Koreans have access to silk early on, which will provide them with an extra luxury, while the Steppe peoples will need to trade for it (or conquer territory to access it). At the same time, the Steppes have access to Furs and "Steppe Horses," which are needed for some civs to build their better cavalry units. The Southeast Asian and Indian civs have early access to spices, which will increase their trade revenue significantly. Southeast Asia also has "Early-ripening Rice" resources in the vicinity; this bonus resource gives a nice food and production bonus.
No Diplomatic Victory - In epic Civ3, it was one way to achieve victory peacefully, but very often, it's also a cheesy way to win. There will be NO diplomatic victory enabled.
Flavor Techs - There will be several "flavor techs" that are not required for era advancement, but provide civs with their unique units and buildings. Along with these "flavor tech trees" is the main, generic tech tree that includes technologies that were pretty much ubiquitous such as "irrigation" and "trade."
SE Asian Units with Enslave Ability - While China (and to a lesser extent, Vietnam) had the problem of overpopulation even in early periods, Southeast Asian kingdoms had the problem of a greater lack of sufficient manpower. Armies did not set out to simply massacre and pillage, but to acquire more slaves. Slaves were an important part of SE Asian society and in some cases, their position was more secure than that of free citizens. For the purpose of this mod, all SE Asian units have the ability to Enslave (whereas other civs will have the Enslave ability confined only to certain units).
War Elephants - All South and Southeast Asian units will have access to War Elephants. War Elephant UUs (such as Haribhunjaya's Mon War Elephant) have certain bonuses, however.
The Early-Ripening Rice Trade - Importation of early-ripening rice from Vietnam brought a huge population explosion in coastal China. This is represented by having a "Rice Merchant" building built only on the coast and increasing food in water tiles.

Things aren't set in stone yet so anyone is free to add.

 

[ShiroKobbure]

I think by 600s Yamato was called Nihon(Nippon).
Emishi are now called Ezo, (Emishi who are not under the Yamato control).

 

[Ogedei_the_Mad]

Made the changes.

Now the question remains - should I have it from 800-1300 or 900-1400? Doing one or the other will drastically change what civs are available.

 

[7ronin]

You already have my take on civs/leaders/UUs etc. As for the time period I'm all for starting in 800.

 

[Keroro]

Reporting in.

I'd go with the 800 AD start too. Though I see nothing wrong with allowing the Mongols to have some fun at the end of the time frame. Also, is it possible to change the Chola leader to a Queen?

 

[Virote_Considon]

I'm sure that adding the extra 100 years wouldn't make too much difference, so you could have it start at aprox. 800, and end at aprox. 1400?

 

[Ogedei_the_Mad]

OK. I've made some changes so that the mod starts at around the 800s. The Khitans existed at this time, so the Liao Empire stays and is now a playable civ. The Khitans were at the time vassals of the Tang Empire, but soon set up their own empire after the Tang collapsed. Dai Viet didn't arise until the mid-900s and at the time it was a tributary state of the Tang Empire and given the derrogatory name of "Annam" ("the pacified south") although it did have its own emperors (who were puppets for the most part); resentment of Chinese domination was strong enough, however. So for the purpose of the mod, Liao in the north and Dai Viet in the south will serve as counter-balances against Chinese hegemony. Dai Viet is under the "East Asia" culture group, as it adopted many things from the Chinese empire. It's actually sort of half and half between the spheres of Southeast Asia and East Asia.

The Tanguts aren't in. They weren't major players until the later Song Period and the Tangut peoples didn't move into the region and become established until the 11th century. The Tangut Xi-xia Empire was a real threat to the region in the 11th to 13th centuries, but their age of power is a bit too brief and they didn't come onto the scene early enough whereas the Viets and Khitans were already established (though not yet in a position of power until the 900s). I could change my mind later, of course.

Tamna (Jeju) and Ryukyukoku (Ryukyu Islands) are still non-playable civs. They both played a part in regional trade, but they weren't ever truly major powers.

Java is Mataram in this mod. The Majapahit Empire comes in too late for the mod. Mataram, while not as powerful or prestigious as Majapahit, still was a major Hindu presence on Java.

The "Great Mongol Nation" didn't exist until well into the Southern Song Dynasty period. I have them a playable civ simply because they were one huge unstoppable war machine in the 11th to 14th centuries. Another anachronism I have is that Japan is headed by Fujiwara no Michinaga; Fujiwara no Michinaga himself lived in 966 to 1027, but his family, the Fujiwara, held a power monopoly over the Heian imperial court for quite some time.

As for SE Asia, there were no "Thai" kingdoms until the rise of Sukhothai in 1238. Haribhunjaya, which was the predecessor of Lanna Thai, was a Mon state; while it was never truly a powerful state, it held significant cultural influence (the mythology of Queen Jamadevi is immortalized in Lanna Thai tradition and in the Jamadevivamsa). Sukhothai is in to represent the Thai peoples (who did exist at the time, but just weren't yet an advanced state society until 1238) and Haribhunjaya is in to represent the Mon peoples in that region. Of course, one of the problems that could occur is that in the actual game either Sukhothai or Haribhunjaya is going to get crushed, or their going to be deadlocked until Bagan or the Khmer Empire sweep in and damage them both (which incidentally was a very real threat historically). I'll be using R8FXT's fabulous "Suriyothai" leaderhead for Queen Jamadevi.

I don't know much about South Asian history. Any names on Chola queens?

 

[Virote_Considon]

I wouldn't focus too much on civs who were already powerful around the 800 start. One of the fun things about civ is playing as, for example, America from the start of the game, or pushing through with Babylon until the end.

 

[The Last Conformist]

Why's Srivijaya listed as South Asian?

 

[Ogedei_the_Mad]

I wouldn't focus too much on civs who were already powerful around the 800 start. One of the fun things about civ is playing as, for example, America from the start of the game, or pushing through with Babylon until the end.

For the most part, I'm trying to keep this a bit closer to history considering that this isn't an epic mod but a period mod. The time period is more specific and so the civs are more specific. There are anachronisms as I mentioned (such as Mongols and Dai Viet starting in the 800s as unified indepenent powers).

Why's Srivijaya listed as South Asian?

That's a mistake on my part.

 

[The Last Conformist]

I haven't seen what map you're using, but from the civ list one suspects India is gonna be rather empty. Maybe slot down a minor kingdom or two to give the Palans and Cholans some opposition?

 

[Ogedei_the_Mad]

I don't know much about South Asian history so I'm needing some input on it.

 

[Blue Monkey]

Please feel free to post any South Asian questions in the Bharata Varsha Bazaar thread; I know of at least one other mod maker who has been asking similar questions.

 

[Ogedei_the_Mad]

Added Cheras, Rashtrakutas, and Pratihara. All three are non-playable AI civs, but should provide the Chola or Pala player some initial challenge.

 

[Ogedei_the_Mad]

Added resources to the main post.

 

[The Last Conformist]

Isn't "wild game" a tautology?

 

[7ronin]

If you are looking to expand the number of civis, here are the civs which were in existence at the beginning of the scenario. This list is derived from maps in The Atlas of World History [Dorling-Kinderly: London, 2006]. This is a very confusing period as civs expanded and contracted around their core areas or were eaten up entirely by their bigger neighbors. The power civs are the Mongols, Chinese, Cambodians, Tibetans, Chalyukyans, Chollans and the Muslims in Pakistan. It would be impractical to put all of these civs in the scenario but I would like to see a few more than we have now as listed in the initial post.

Modern Area--------750----------------1000
Manchuria -----------Bohai
Korea----------------Silla-----------------Koryo
Mongolia-------------Uighur Empire--------Khitan Empire
Tibet----------------Tibet----------------Tibet
Nepal----------------Licchavis
China----------------Tang Empire---------Song Empire
Japan----------------Nippon--------------Nippon
Northern Japan-------Ezo-----------------Ezo
Okinawa-------------Ryukyu--------------Ryukyu
Pakistan-------------Umayyad Caliphate---Ghaznavids
Southwest China-----Nanzhao-------------Nahzhao
North Vietnam-----------------------------Dai Viet
South Vietnam-------Champa--------------Champa
Cambodia------------Chenla---------------Khambujdesa
Thailand-------------Dvaravati------------Dvaravati
Burma---------------Pyu -----------------Pagan
Burma------------------------------------Begu
Thailand-------------Thaton--------------Thaton
Burma---------------Harjpunjaya----------Harjpunjaya
Thailand-------------Arakan---------------Arakan
Northwest India------Gurjara pratheras
Northeast India------various small Indian states
Central India---------Rashtrakutas
Southeast India------Pallavas
West India-----------Chalukyas-----------Chalukyas
India-------------------------------------Hindu City States
India-------------------------------------Kashmir
India-------------------------------------Chandellas
Bangladesh-------------------------------Pala
India-------------------------------------Kalacuris
India-------------------------------------Abhiras
India-------------------------------------Charmanes
India-------------------------------------Qarmatis
India-------------------------------------Eastern Gangas
India-------------------------------------Eastern Chalukyas
India-------------------------------------Bhaumas
South India----------Pandyas-------------Cholas
Ceylon---------------Lambakannas--------Lanbakannas
Sumatra-------------Srivijaya-------------Srivijaya
Java-----------------Javan Kingdoms------East Java Kingdom
Jeju-----------------------subjugated by Silla---------------
Borneo---------------------barbarians-----------------------
Taiwan---------------------barbarians-----------------------
Philippines------------------barbarians-----------------------

 

[Ogedei_the_Mad]

Some comments on your list -

-The Uighur Khanate was in present-day Xinjiang Province, western China. I think I'll add them in as a non-playable civ, maybe as a way to provide a challenge to the power of the Chinese and Mongols.

-Dvarvati was a Mon kingdom, as was Thaton. Neither were Tai kingdoms. Thaton and Arakan are in present-day Myanmar / Burma. Dvarvati is in present-day Thailand. The entire region was under the domination of either the Burmese or the Khmer. There was no strong, solidified Tai kingdom until the rise of Sukhothai. Though an anachronism, Sukhothai is in to represent the Tai peoples who nonetheless were a major part of the region even before they were a major power. Also, Sukhothai was a significant regional power in the 13th century. Nanzhao was a Tai kingdom, so I'll add that in. One of my concerns though is that Southeast Asia would be too overcrowded.

-Haribhunjaya was also a Mon kingdom, but it wasn't situated in Burma. It was situated in present-day Chaing Mai, Thailand where it held cultural influence. It was conquered by the invading Tais and became Lanna Thai, but its cultural legacy left a lasting impact on the Lanna Thai people (the legend of Queen Jamadevi still being one of the most important myths of Chiang Mai area).

-The main power on Java was Mataram. Although it wasn't until the Majapahit Empire that Java was a real major empire in Indonesia, Mataram was a major rival of Srivijaya.

-Jeju at the time was the Tamna kingdom. It wasn't subjugated by Shilla. Rather it made itself become a tributary state of Shilla, but was fairly autonomous from the Korean mainland until the Joseon Dynasty in 1404.

There are 24 civs currently on the list. I do not intend to fill up the full 31 and several will remain as un-playable civs. For the time being, we'll avoid being too ambitious, which was what kept the original Rise of Asia project pretty much stagnant. Better not put the cart before the horse.

Isn't "wild game" a tautology?

It is.

Also made some additions to the "Concepts" list above.

 

[7ronin]

Some comments on your list -

Looks good. I just wanted to make sure that we had the entire big picture to draw on. If the number of civs looks like it might be becoming a problem I would consider deleting Jeju and Ryukyukoku particularly since they aren't going to consist of more than one city each if I'm looking at the map correctly.

Other thoughts:
The capital of Tang China was Chang'an (present day Xian). It was the largest city in the world at that time.

I have been unable to find the names of any Cholla queens. It looks like none of them ever reigned in their own right.

Rashtrakuta: Emperor Govinda III; capital city: Achalapura. I recommend making them playable as they were the equal of Cholas and Pala. Their army relied heavily on cavalry and elephants.

Pala Dynasty: capital city: Pataliputra? Their armies consisted of heavy infantry, cavalry, elephants and chariots.

Kambujadesa: Leader: Jayavaraman VII; Angor friezes show an army of elephants and spearmen with shields. Kambuja appears to be in more common use as the name of the country(?).

China: Swoggy made a Great Wall Border Guard. I suggest we use it and have it auto-produced - weak but plentiful.

Ezo: Leader: Aterui; UU-Ezo archer.

 

[7ronin]

Additional info/comments/questions (sorry for the double post)

Nanzhao: Leader: King Pileguo; UU: some form of heavy cavalry
Pratihara: Leader: King Najabhata II; capital: Ujjain
Srivijaya: Leader Maharajah Balapuitra; capital: Palembang; UU - I recommend some kind of warship
Jeju: Leader: Seonju (King) Chungoyeol
Ezo: The Ezo lived in villages rather than cities; somewhere I have a list of some of them but I can't find it. The cities which now exist in what were formerly Ezo territory were founded by the Japanese UU: The primary weapons of the Ezo were bows and spears; resources: furs
Uighur Khanate: Leader: Chief Quttugh Bilga Kol Qaghan (Bilga Kol for short?); capital: Ordu Biliq; UU: some form of cavalry

Indian armies at this time consisted of heavy chariots, elephants, composite bowmen, and infantryman armed with either spears or swords. The different armies are all pretty much interchangeable.

Eras: I think two eras would be sufficient to generate a respectable number of techs; You might designate them as something like Rise of Nations and Clash of Wills.

Military leaders: It will be difficult to find these for most of the civs (exceptions are the Tang, Mongols and Japanese. Elsewhere, in most cases armies were generaled by the Kings. You could probably use some alternate leader names for the names of military leaders.

Scientific leaders: This one is going to be impossible to put together. You consider just designating them as scientifc leader 1, scientific leader 2, etc.

Leaderheads: Any thoughts yet on which of the 24 might already be completed? Perhaps it would be a good idea to start sending out requests now for those we don't have.

Trade: Any thoughts on having a "trade good" which can actually be produced by a wonder and which can be dropped off elsewhere for culture points? (cf Mountain and the Desert)

Religion: Does it matter?

Governments: Tribalism?, Monarchy?, Imperial System? Confederacy? Theocracy?

Tech trees: one or several?

Plague: yes? no?

Flavor groups: East Asia? Steppe/Himalaya? Southeast Asia? South Asia? Flavors can be an excellent way of launching on to different research paths and of establishing techs that can only be researched by one flavor.