Christianity = Violent Religion?

[George2816]

And if you really want to talk about dead Lebanese kids lets talk about how rocket launchers were placed on the grounds of a children's hospice by terrorists. Then when the Israelis bomb a launcher it kills a bunch of kids who were placed there and "martyred". If thats not bad enough they then go and carry the same dead boy from wrecked building to wrecked building to inflate the precieved death toll well above what it actually was. But those kids weren't targeted now were they.

A) wheres your "proof" that the "evil terrorists" carried the same dead boy from point a to point b. B) wheres the "proof that the "terrorists" actually fired in israel C) Why did israel fire into the UN post

What?

I'm saying that people that supplied the bombs are as a guilty as someone that set Them

And yes it was a defensive war.

SO by what your saying i can say that the iraq and afgstain war is a defensive war?

Started by the launching of 100 or so rockets by hezbola at civilian targets and the cross border incursion to kidnap an Israeli soldier or three.

Both of the "nations" didn't do that but they did allegedly crash a few airlines. And saddam allegedly had ties to 9/11 hijackers and he allegedly was trying to buy "yellow cake"

Wait. So you're saying because Christians don't believe in rolling over and dying, that now it's a violent religion because they want to protect their homeland? What?

Yes i am jesus said "Love thy neighbors as thy self", "Turn your cheek when hit", and other stuff. So i do think christans should roll over and die for what they think is the truth.

SO tell me what the war in iraq is about?? It is not about protecting the USA is it?? (Their is no immediate threat from anyone is there?)

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

While alot of Americans think Muslim is a very violent religion, how come we never take a look back at conflicts caused by Christianity?
Lets take a look at some incidents from the past that were caused by Christianity...
*The Inquisition(s)
*The Crusades
*The KKK/Fascism/Nazism (Which was created by a bunch of white CHRISTIAN people and against anyone that weren't Christian or white)
*The Salem "Witches"/Other incidents about witches

The people you speak of who think Islam is a violent religion are wrong. The people you have as an example that Christianity is a violent religion were/are wrong about christianity as well.

If I take a hammer and bash someone's skull in, that doesn't mean hammers were made for skullbashing.

 

[Esckey]

Yes of course it is. All religions are violent

 

[Photi]

Secondly:
So now the defensive war of a Jewish nation funded by a secular nation with some Christian overtones is being cast as a Christian atrocity?

now that's a tragedy. defensive war? give me a break.thousands dead and billion$ destroyed all for two hostages? how many hostages are the israelis holding? thousands. the war in lebanon was an all out offensive. and they got their asses handed to them and left in embarrassment. i think hezbollah proved who the braver fighters are. and israel is not a jewish nation, it is a racist and secular zionist ashkenazi nation cloaking itself in the star of david.

 

[Erik Mesoy]

I want to thank the team for coming out tonight...puglover, elrohir, yankee, even you skad...if we just had mesoy it would have been a party.

Here I am!


Let's see what we have in this thread.
"Atrocities committed by Christians" - yeah, fine, now trace them back to Christianity or I'll slap the Great Leap Forward down as a reason to ban atheism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_tolls is also interesting reading.
"All religions are violent" - Try "All ideologies have violent followers" instead.
"Christainity" - this pops up so often that I'm just going to answer "Athiesm!"

Finally: Treaty of Tripoli, Article 11 is always nice reading for those trying to bring up "religious nations".

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Leave Atheism alone you Irnch!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_tolls
I feel a new thread looming. "Are wars violent?"

 

[classical_hero]

All I have to say on this Topic. Death to AmeriKKKa.

 

[skadistic]

A) wheres your "proof" that the "evil terrorists" carried the same dead boy from point a to point b.Well if you go back you will see "blue helmet guy" with the same dead boy in his arms posing for pictures in front of numerous buildings. B) wheres the "proof that the "terrorists" actually fired in israel I don't know maybe its all the rockets that were seen falling from the sky?C) Why did israel fire into the UN postBecause it was being used by hezbola as cover, esentualy useing the UN as a human sheild. The weapons the Israelis used aren't exactly 100% accurate.

I'm saying that people that supplied the bombs are as a guilty as someone that set ThemSo is Victorinox guilty when some one gets stabbed? Is Ford guilty when some one intentualy runs down a crowd of people?

SO by what your saying i can say that the iraq and afgstain war is a defensive war?Why do you alway try to put words in people mouths? And Afghanistan was a defensive war. Iraq was a re-engagment of of hostilities after repeated violations of a cease fire agreement.
Both of the "nations" didn't do that but they did allegedly crash a few airlines. And saddam allegedly had ties to 9/11 hijackers and he allegedly was trying to buy "yellow cake"So whats your point? Different wars different reasons.

Yes i am jesus said "Love thy neighbors as thy self", "Turn your cheek when hit", and other stuff. So i do think christans should roll over and die for what they think is the truth.

SO tell me what the war in iraq is about?? It is not about protecting the USA is it?? (Their is no immediate threat from anyone is there?)

So what your saying is you don't know what your talking about but go on and open your mouth anyway?

 

[AL_DA_GREAT]

Religeon is violent, including Christianity. Just look at the people who died defendingg their nations from the Crusade.

 

[skadistic]

Religeon is violent, including Christianity. Just look at the people who died defendingg their nations from the Crusade.

Again. For the umptenth time. The religion is not violent the people are. Christianity's message is peace love and being nice. Islams message is kill the unbeliever unless he converts to islam. Big difference.

 

[brennan]

Right, and how many Muslims exactly would agree with your interpretation of their scripture?

Violent people behave violently all over the world. Let's be honest, religion makes very little difference except that it gives believers a 'get out of jail' card morally. (In their opinion)

 

[Phlegmak]

The monotheist religions are violent. It just so happens that a good proportion of the adherents of those religions are peaceful, which is obviously a good thing.

 

[skadistic]

Right, and how many Muslims exactly would agree with your interpretation of their scripture?

Only the ones who have read the part that says "kill the unbeliever where ever you find them" Its not an interpretation when its a quote. The quran is the absolute infallible word of allah. They follow what it says or they aren't very good muslims.

 

[Erik Mesoy]

Religion is violent, including Christianity. Just look at the people who died defendingg their nations from the Crusade.

Conveniently ignoring things like the political motivations for the Crusades (plural), and that the Muslims attacked Europe first, doesn't this also prove that atheism is violent? I mean, just look at all the people who died under Communism. It seems that you didn't read my previous post. Maybe you'll read this one since I quoted you. Look how the Crusades started:

In March 1095 at the Council of Piacenza, ambassadors sent by Byzantine emperor Alexius I called for help with defending his empire against the Seljuk Turks. Later that year, at the Council of Clermont, Pope Urban II called upon all Christians to join a war against the Turks [...]

Read and become educated.

The origins of the Crusades in general, and of the First Crusade in particular, stem from events earlier in the Middle Ages. The breakdown of the Carolingian Empire in previous centuries, combined with the relative stability of European borders after the Christianization of the Vikings and Magyars, gave rise to an entire class of warriors who now had little to do but fight among themselves.

By the early 8th century, the Umayyad Caliphate had rapidly captured North Africa, Egypt, Palestine, Syria, and Spain from a predominantly Christian Byzantine Empire. During the 9th century, the Reconquista picked up an ideological potency that is considered to be the first example of a concerted "Christian" effort to recapture territory, seen as lost to Muslims, as part of the expansion efforts of the Christian kingdoms along the Bay of Biscay.

Tell me when you've got this and we'll talk about the rest of the Crusades afterwards. If you attempt to skip ahead to cherry-picked icky bits, I will assume that you are recanting of your original argument because you cannot defend it.

 

[brennan]

Only the ones who have read the part that says "kill the unbeliever where ever you find them" Its not an interpretation when its a quote. The quran is the absolute infallible word of allah. They follow what it says or they aren't very good muslims.

Ah yes, and the Bible is the fallible word of God is it?

Anyway, you missed the point as usual: is it really that Islam is violent or are you happy to read into Muslim history exactly what you object to whenever someone mentions the Crusades?

 

[MobBoss]

Religeon is violent, including Christianity. Just look at the people who died defendingg their nations from the Crusade.

People are violent. I think you would find such things still would happen if no such thing as religion existed.

 

[Erik Mesoy]

The monotheist religions are violent. It just so happens that a good proportion of the adherents of those religions are peaceful, which is obviously a good thing.

Correction: All ideologies are violent (with the obvious exception for any ideology that is "non-violence"). It just so happens that a good proportion of the adherents of those ideologies are peaceful, which is obviously a good thing.

The following can now be expected to occur:
(Not necessarily in this exact order.)

• Outraged demands that I back up my claim.
• Snide remark requesting ten ideologies to find examples of violence in.
• Snipped quotes from the Bible espousing violence.
• Snipped quotes from the Bible condemning violence.
• Snipped quotes from various ideologies espousing violence.
• Furious flame that the most recent quotes are quote mined and not representative.
• Snipped quotes from the Koran espousing violence.
• Sarcastic comment that the first set of Bible quotes were also out of context.
• Snipped quotes from the Koran condemning violence.
• Moderator action requesting less of the trolling and flaming.
• Indignant arguments over who has the right to interpret the Bible.
• Posts with .
• Witty remark on atheism, baldness and hair color.
• Reply that atheism should have no place in this debate if it's not an ideology and thus the non-violence of atheism is irrelevant to the fact that all ideologies are violent (non-violence may be prefaced with "supposed" or "presumed".)
• Richard Dawkins quotes.
• Knee-jerk repetition of points made earlier in the thread.
• Equally repetitive statement that said points were demolished previously in the thread.
• Annoyed opinion that on the contrary, they were ignored.
• Ad hominem attacks.
• Useless post claiming to return to the original topic but actually trolling Christianity.
• Useless post trolling the above troll.
• Futile attempt to return to the topic.
• Moderator action for spam, trolling and flaming; thread locked!

 

[Phlegmak]

Correction: All ideologies are violent (with the obvious exception for any ideology that is "non-violence"). It just so happens that a good proportion of the adherents of those ideologies are peaceful, which is obviously a good thing.

The following can now be expected to occur:
(Not necessarily in this exact order.)

• Outraged demands that I back up my claim.
• Snide remark requesting ten ideologies to find examples of violence in.
• Snipped quotes from the Bible espousing violence.
• Snipped quotes from the Bible condemning violence.
• Snipped quotes from various ideologies espousing violence.
• Furious flame that the most recent quotes are quote mined and not representative.
• Snipped quotes from the Koran espousing violence.
• Sarcastic comment that the first set of Bible quotes were also out of context.
• Snipped quotes from the Koran condemning violence.
• Moderator action requesting less of the trolling and flaming.
• Indignant arguments over who has the right to interpret the Bible.
• Posts with .
• Witty remark on atheism, baldness and hair color.
• Reply that atheism should have no place in this debate if it's not an ideology and thus the non-violence of atheism is irrelevant to the fact that all ideologies are violent (non-violence may be prefaced with "supposed" or "presumed".)
• Richard Dawkins quotes.
• Knee-jerk repetition of points made earlier in the thread.
• Equally repetitive statement that said points were demolished previously in the thread.
• Annoyed opinion that on the contrary, they were ignored.
• Ad hominem attacks.
• Useless post claiming to return to the original topic but actually trolling Christianity.
• Useless post trolling the above troll.
• Futile attempt to return to the topic.
• Moderator action for spam, trollong and flaming; thread locked!

I won't argue with you.

I would like to add:

Ideologies that claim certain things are moral absolutes are historically violent. So that includes religions and communism. The only exception I can think of right now is the Rand cult. I think they haven't been violent yet, but that's probably because they're too small. Do they have absolute morals? I can't remember.

 

[skadistic]

Ah yes, and the Bible is the fallible word of God is it?Show me where the bible says to go out and kill the unbelievers.

Anyway, you missed the point as usual: is it really that Islam is violent or are you happy to read into Muslim history exactly what you object to whenever someone mentions the Crusades?

I didn't miss the point. It wasn't there to be missed. Not until I showed you up at least. But as usual you got shown up and ran to make up a "missed point".

What do I object to when some one mentions the Crusades exactly? Don't worry you can make up another point that wasn't there earlier.

 

[Ali Zaybak]

So, in a misguided strike at recovering some of the original intent of this discussion, I'll bring to bear my amateur theology .
I feel like playing the devil's advocate here (perhaps literally ), but remember that "The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose" (The Merchant of Venice 1.3).

So, may I present you, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, Exhibit A:

Matthew 10
33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. ninja
35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

So, I have always wondered about this part of the Bible. Are there any more accomplished theologians out there who can explain it to me in context of Jesus' more peaceful teachings? Or is it, perhaps, evidence of Christianity's violent origins... ?