SGOTM 07 - Murky Waters
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Will have a look at the save soon.
Ok, some thoughts from the save:
LC, you played very well.
We all missed the fact that Asoka's borders would expand instantly.
We need to immediately bribe Elizabeth to make peace with Alex, or she takes Athens from under our nose. We can either do it with Printing Press, or buy Nationalism from Hattie for PP+Liberalism and use Nationalism to bribe Lizzie. I think I would prefer Hattie to have PP rather than Lizzie.
Anyway, if we do this then KK captures Athens IBT.
Get rid of Asokas stack on the mine next to Hamburg. Use a Choko first, then Grenadier+choko or whatever it takes. Then KK may capture Hamburg IBT too. At worst he captures it one turn late so no big deal.
Keep two Grenadiers at Madrid because Asoka will unload two or three Galleons there. The good part is that this will almost empty Kyoto.
Send our northern Grenadiers and cats to Bombay and Delhi and start bombarding and pillaging.
All in all, it looks like we are ready to wrap this game up now. Steel in 5 turns. Kill 'em all!
LC, you played very well.
We all missed the fact that Asoka's borders would expand instantly.We need to immediately bribe Elizabeth to make peace with Alex, or she takes Athens from under our nose. We can either do it with Printing Press, or buy Nationalism from Hattie for PP+Liberalism and use Nationalism to bribe Lizzie. I think I would prefer Hattie to have PP rather than Lizzie.
Anyway, if we do this then KK captures Athens IBT.
Get rid of Asokas stack on the mine next to Hamburg. Use a Choko first, then Grenadier+choko or whatever it takes. Then KK may capture Hamburg IBT too.
At worst he captures it one turn late so no big deal. Keep two Grenadiers at Madrid because Asoka will unload two or three Galleons there. The good part is that this will almost empty Kyoto.
Send our northern Grenadiers and cats to Bombay and Delhi and start bombarding and pillaging.
All in all, it looks like we are ready to wrap this game up now. Steel in 5 turns. Kill 'em all!
We need to act now not next turn, so cannot use nationalism.
We could bribe Cathy on Asoka for astronomy (or for lesser techs, just hoping he will send his troops to her - unlikely).
Edit:
Get our frigate out of Madrid to watch Asoka's fleet coming. There should be the chance to send a loaded galleon to Davy's locker as long as he doesn't have frigates to escort.
Doh. Ok PP to Lizzie is required then.
I wouldn't bring in Cathy. We want Asoka to land at Madrid. Two Grenadiers can handle the defense and Asoka empties Kyoto. After that he has very few loose troops left.
It turned out that declaring on Alex was a real power move. The reason why Kublai sent so few units to Antium and Madrid was that they were all aboard ships already. 
For the coming turnsets we should keep an eye on Kublai's Galleons and be prepared to DoW Elizabeth when he has assembled a new expeditionary force. This time we should also have a Galleon or two of our own to deposit some cannons for getting rid of the culture defenses in time for KK's arrival. We might need a Frigate or two as well if we still care about the food resources.
For the coming turnsets we should keep an eye on Kublai's Galleons and be prepared to DoW Elizabeth when he has assembled a new expeditionary force. This time we should also have a Galleon or two of our own to deposit some cannons for getting rid of the culture defenses in time for KK's arrival. We might need a Frigate or two as well if we still care about the food resources.
Well done, LC!!
KK will take Athens in 1t and Hamburg in 2t.
We might have a slowdown then. Will KK keep his E units at Hamburg and his W units at a galleon?
What to do?
Wait and see, while breaking Asoka's neck? Gifting units?
KK will take Athens in 1t and Hamburg in 2t.
We might have a slowdown then. Will KK keep his E units at Hamburg and his W units at a galleon?
What to do?
Wait and see, while breaking Asoka's neck? Gifting units?
Another idea:
DoW Liz.
KK can take Athens from her, for only 3 turns resistance.
We can prepare to redline Cuzco and Hamburg next turn and KK has quite some troops in the region.
Only problem I see is that we have to defend our land and might run into some fights in the open (and lose maybe a unit or 2). And our WW will sky rocket. But the chance to get 3 cities within 2-3 turns is tempting.
DoW Liz.
KK can take Athens from her, for only 3 turns resistance.
We can prepare to redline Cuzco and Hamburg next turn and KK has quite some troops in the region.
Only problem I see is that we have to defend our land and might run into some fights in the open (and lose maybe a unit or 2). And our WW will sky rocket. But the chance to get 3 cities within 2-3 turns is tempting.
Another idea:
DoW Liz.
KK can take Athens from her, for only 3 turns resistance.
We can prepare to redline Cuzco and Hamburg next turn and KK has quite some troops in the region.
Only problem I see is that we have to defend our land and might run into some fights in the open (and lose maybe a unit or 2). And our WW will sky rocket. But the chance to get 3 cities within 2-3 turns is tempting.
I also thought about this. But I saw two problems:
- Do we really have enough units to take care of Cuzco, Hamburg, Kyoto, and Bombay at the same time?
- And more importantly, we have no naval defenses at Murky and will surely get our nets pillaged. There is also a big risk that Lizzie makes an amphibious landing at Murkyopolis. This could get ugly...
FiveAces, you might want to close borders with JC in 2 turns. That way you can probably prevent most of his loose units from returning home to Rome. Even better would be to get him into a new war, but I doubt it is possible given his feelings for us now...
Well, the way it was currently we had too few action. Our units did fight very rarely.
Currently (yeah, that may chance during the war), we have the by far best units. It doesn't look like Liz or Asoka will have many free units left, so I think we can handle it.
The risk that our nets get pillaged is there (it's by no means certain). And for sure we should keep a few units at home in case of a landing, though, if I read the code right, Liz will rather target Athens (if she has a filled assault group at all).
Ok this is my 10,000-foot PPP:
Call Liz off Alex so KK can take Athens.
Continue the war against Asoka with Hamburg as the 1st target city. From there either Kyoto or Bombay. Pillage high commerce tiles and bombard cities.
Use the frigate at Madrid to try to intercept Asoka's fleet at Kyoto.
Send a couple more units from Murky to Asoka-land.
Build Globe. Build a couple more units, then build a frigate for Liz defense and to bombard London.
Prepare to assist kk in a war against Liz. I'm thinking this will be near the end of my turnset or possibly beginning of jesusin's as opposed to right now. I'd like kk to have a couple city defense in Athens before moving on so that he can use that nice stack of his effectively.
I'll work on the details later tonight, but if you guys want to make suggestions/comments/concerns on the above that would be great..
Call Liz off Alex so KK can take Athens.
Continue the war against Asoka with Hamburg as the 1st target city. From there either Kyoto or Bombay. Pillage high commerce tiles and bombard cities.
Use the frigate at Madrid to try to intercept Asoka's fleet at Kyoto.
Send a couple more units from Murky to Asoka-land.
Build Globe. Build a couple more units, then build a frigate for Liz defense and to bombard London.
Prepare to assist kk in a war against Liz. I'm thinking this will be near the end of my turnset or possibly beginning of jesusin's as opposed to right now. I'd like kk to have a couple city defense in Athens before moving on so that he can use that nice stack of his effectively.
I'll work on the details later tonight, but if you guys want to make suggestions/comments/concerns on the above that would be great..
LowtherCastle
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- May 18, 2005
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Looks good to me. Some comments:
1. The workers have built a workshop for 1t each on the cottage where they stand. I think we need more workshops, but you might consider sending one of the workers down eventually (see Note 5) to build a road on Athens corn or wherever else we need them.
2. Depending on what you lose at Hamburg, I would consider going for both Kyoto and Bombay at the same time, but if not prioiritze Bombay, which is producing muskets every 2-3 turns (HE + forge) and also gives you a view inside all other Hindu cities once you capture it.
3. I would pillage important Bombay hammer tiles asap, especially the copper and not worry at all about commerce tiles.
4. I see no way you can intercept Asoka's galleons if he wants to land his units at Madrid 2N or Madrid E. I considered all variations and deliberately placed the frigate where it is because: 1) it prevents a sea attack on Madrid and 2) it keeps open the path to Madrid for our frigate after killing off one of the galleons, when our frigate will need to heal and will be vulnarable to counter-attack by the second galleon.
5. For Globe you'll need to build up the overflow again, maybe building 2 maces at -1fpt, 31hpt and then a cat at 36 or 40hpt (using the next workshp instead of furs for one turn). That'll get it done nicely.
6. Final comment: I still think we want to do Washington right after capturing Bombay, even if we give Liz PP now, but that's a decision for later anyway, probably.
Skip the Globe and use the culture slider for happiness. After Steel there is nothing else we need to research anyway.
Speaking of which, what will you research after Steel? I suggest Biology to help boost KK's population for the domination win.
Other than that everything looks good. But please provide some details on how you will use our units at Hamburg.
LowtherCastle
Deity
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Reaching the domination limit by growing your own population is only 38% effective. Besides, KK doesn't have many farms and is liable to build over them. I don't think we'll need to worry about the population factor (if we don't autoraze Rome), but if we do, it's better just to take out a Cyrus city. That's about 62% effective with autoraze.
The only other tech that might speed up our victory is RR. We either risk it and go to 0% science or beeline RR. 0% science upgrades a mace every few turns.
