LowtherCastle
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Glad you're safely back from the Pamplona bull run. Thought you might have gotten stuck up in that bullsh...
SGOTM 07 - Murky Waters
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LowtherCastle
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I can think of four reasons why I would prefer to send at least 13 units. 1) Rome has 21 units in it. 2) Murky is far away, so if we send to few, we're toast. 3) KK has three, weakly defended cities within 2 turns of Rome and Rome has a big enough SoD to easily take out any one of them. 4) KK has most of his units up north, so we'll definitely have to red-line Rome.
Furthermore, even if jesusin sends all 13 units down, I still don't see why he couldn't send those four units to London and have them back in time to attack Washington after about 6 turns, having 11-12 units in his stack and 3 defenders on the furs, marble and deer.
Other thoughts:
1. Gift JC Astro, so he builds an observatory instead of more units? Plus he can upgrade his galleys to galleons and maybe send off an extra unit or two.
2. Workers farm and road the Athens corn asap? Antium will soon need more health resources.
3. If Cyrus, Hatty, or Louis happen to DoW Mansa, shouldn't we bribe them out of it asap, at whatever cost?
4. After Biology is done, 0% research and produce cash for upgrades?
5. We still have those two warriors to upgrade if Washington brings trouble after DoW.
I think, we should now build a galleon to gift our warriors in London and get them back home. Having a pair of KK's grens in Murky and be able to decide when they go into action, can help a lot with either Nottingham or NY.
I would plan only for a minimal (gren + 2 cannons) stack for Rome.
Washington has to fall quickly and York and Bombay have to be defended. Even though W. currently doesn't have good attack troops he has lots of units. And they will attack as they cannot pillage anything.
A CF with Liz might be good before DoWing W just to get KK's pillaging troops out of English land.
There is still one other possible use for our GA. That's bomb Murky. Full culture bomb should get us the silver back, so KK doesn't have to pillage it. We might also get the cow, again one tile less to pillage. And maybe we get a revolt in Nottingham, if jesusin is as lucky as Erkon
.
Another possibility is taking New York (with KK's galleon grens) before Washington and let KK bomb that.
I would plan only for a minimal (gren + 2 cannons) stack for Rome.
Washington has to fall quickly and York and Bombay have to be defended. Even though W. currently doesn't have good attack troops he has lots of units. And they will attack as they cannot pillage anything.
A CF with Liz might be good before DoWing W just to get KK's pillaging troops out of English land.
There is still one other possible use for our GA. That's bomb Murky. Full culture bomb should get us the silver back, so KK doesn't have to pillage it. We might also get the cow, again one tile less to pillage. And maybe we get a revolt in Nottingham, if jesusin is as lucky as Erkon
.Another possibility is taking New York (with KK's galleon grens) before Washington and let KK bomb that.
Random thought:
Would my teammates consider bad style to lose 1 KK city to JC or Wash?
The attack stacks of the AIs seem easier to kill in a 0% defense city without borders around it to delay both ours and KK's troups. Furthermore, KK would recover its original borders as soon as the city is retaken. It costs 1 pop, when the enemy takes the city, but I think it doesn't cost another one when KK retakes.
Would my teammates consider bad style to lose 1 KK city to JC or Wash?
The attack stacks of the AIs seem easier to kill in a 0% defense city without borders around it to delay both ours and KK's troups. Furthermore, KK would recover its original borders as soon as the city is retaken. It costs 1 pop, when the enemy takes the city, but I think it doesn't cost another one when KK retakes.
LowtherCastle
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True. If we build the galleon this turn, those two grens could realistically capture a red-lined NY on T166.
Besh, Antium, and Madrid are poorly defended. How do you envision this minimal outfit being useful? I'd be concerned that JC would send his tried and true mega-SoD out to capture again, just like it captured Cuzco.
Let me try this once more.
Final odds threshold = 2*30=60 (no units adjacent)
CII musket attacking CII gren(+25% city; 20% fortify): {10.8/(10.8+20.88)}+8% = 34+8=42%
42<60 No attack decision.
-or-
CRI gren vs. CII gren(+25% city; 20% fortify): {12/12+18}+8% = 40+8%=48%. No attack decision.
I don't see an attack decision if we have a single gren fortified in each city. The only possibility that I see is W sends a stack to pillage farther away and they happen to end up adjacent to Bombay (which our initial intrusion could block by moving our units to Bombay W and SW).
What did I oversimplify this time?
Btw, are you sure KK will bomb New York? Since the GA can move to Murky, that is, he's not totally trapped, does change KK's 'thinking' in any way? Or is his thinking that he still doesn't have a safe route to Bombay or wherever, so he'll bomb New York?
LowtherCastle
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Funny, I was thinking to myself earlier today, "Who cares if W captures Bombay. It's pop1 anyway?" Then I said, "No, that's no good, because I we lose that culture..." Now that you reminded me that we gain the culture back...
"Who cares if W captures Bombay. It's pop1 anyway?"
Any other cities: No way. Very BAD style. LowtherCastle
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Btw, in my testing, the grens leave Murky on the first or second IT after our galleon arrives there. To maintain control over them, we would need to keep the galleon on the adjacent coastal tile.
I'm leaning towards postponing the attack on Rome until Washington falls and/or both Wash and NY is redlined. Which means that we should DoW Washington asap and use all available units in the attack.
Why no units adjacent? Currently GW has units adjacent to Bombay. And he may move more on their way to do whatever units do, ending next to a city by accident.What did I oversimplify this time?
Attack city cats can move to bombard Bombay and are then adjacent. Also once some units bombarded there is an additional bonus to attack the cities.
Also target city mode is not depending on any odds threshold. So a stack can target one of the cities. Then these units are adjacent and the thresholds for the next units lowered.
Also you also have to take into account an error in one of my previous posts
. It's not a factor of 2 but only 1.5 for no units adjacent (the code adds a 1 to the number of units, if the unit itself is not adjacent, so it's 6/4 max).The first attacks could come from UNITAI_collateral units. They can attack big stacks (>=5) at 20 odds.
Enough, or do I have to scan
the code for more sophisticated ways how the attack could start?No I'm not sure. He might still just sit around. The whole path finding stuff is unclear and the sources are not available in the SDK. And it's pretty sure bugged. It's e.g. unclear why Sal doesn't do anything though he seems to have a loaded assault sea group in Mecca. If he has a path he should have started to move 10 turns after he had his hands full latest. And for the human it looks like he has a path to everybody.
JC has lbs and maces. He will be as idiotic as KK with his units, so the big number doesn't mean a lot. KK may be even able to handle him on his own.
GW has muskets and grens (he can at least build them).
If we delay Washington, York will also starve to size 1 and Bombay will not grow.
I haven't seen units leave unless they are explicitly unloaded.
LowtherCastle
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I was surprised by it today and tested it several times. I wanted to know if we could leave his units in the galleon and if they defended if we were under attack. One defended against the only attacker, then the other two bolted, leaving Murky entirely empty.
So then I tried it without any attacks, just times of peace. Zoom zoom, away they went.
LowtherCastle
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Uncle....
I keep seeing this delay Washington notion. York comes out of resistance in 6 turns. I envision jesusin sending 13 units to JC and still attacking W in about 4-5 turns. Are you talking about attacking W sooner than that?
LowtherCastle
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Bombay can't lose any population. EDIT: Losing Antium would be CATASTROPHIC. It's about to gain about 1 pop per turn. Instead it would lose a bunch. That's about a difference of pop10. Literally.
I don't see any difference between killing W at Washington and somewhere else, since we can bombard city defenses. (Okay, there's that paltry 25% fornification factor.)
The difference, which might be more pronounced for Rome, is that we involve more of KK's units. I an thinking about the city defenders in for example Antium that will get pretty a good defensive bonus.
Right, Antium would be catastrophic, since it has been Roman and he would recover his borders.
Do we know what lays in WashDC? Can't be a lot, according to the powergraph...
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