A thread for small ideas

[WarKirby]

Haste on a warrior isn't very appropriate. Dancing Blades would seem better, and Haste on Scouts.

So for a scout, you'd have a <PromotionAllow>PROMOTION_BODY1</PromotionAllow>, which means that if you ever get access to Body magic, all of your scouts can promote to Body 1 at their next level up and cast Haste. Warriors would get <PromotionAllow>PROMOTION_CHAOS1</PromotionAllow>, meaning if you get Chaos Mana they can pay a level to gain Dance of Blades for themselves. I would say you ought to link all magic spells to UnitCombat Adept and set things up so that every other unitcombat requires a PromotionAllow flag to get them so that you can expand this beyond rank 1 spells.

This system would let you set up a couple of appropriate spells available to units from the start of the game, or while Govannon is dead. Govannon is able to grant them the spells for free, AND can grant them ones normally not available (like Haste to your warrior).

I really like this idea, though I'm having trouble thinking of how to implement it

A UU for every amurite unit seems like the most feasible, if not the cleanest method. Auto aquire promotions could also be used, although they'd kind of clutter up the interface

Thoughts on what they ought to be...

Scout: Haste
Hunter: Floating Eye
Ranger: Treetop Defence
Beastmaster: Poisoned Blade
Assasin: Shadowwalk

Warrior: Courage
Swordsman: Enchanted Blade
Champion: Stoneskin
Phalanx/Immortal: Valor

Archer: Dance of Blades
Firebow: Force II

Can't think of much for the higher tier units though, or the mounted line.

 

[deadliver]

yes yes. See? This idea is awesome and differentiates the Amurites from others. All it needs is refinement and boundaries.

Maybe the pre-adept idea would be more appropriate for the Sheiam? I like the idea of puny-casters just not for the Amurites.

 

[Vehem]

Why not?

1.) Basically the same as having warrens except these extra units cannot be promoted.

Also except you're not getting one extra unit, you're getting upto one per turn that you can just throw repeatedly at a city until it falls. Adept-skelly armies are already very effective (10 adepts with Death I), but that means spending the hammers on adepts who aren't exactly combat monsters themselves. Do it with Axemen or (even worse) Archers instead and you have a very resilient army, potentially with supporting ranged attacks, which can summon 40 strength worth of minions per turn to attack with before risking any unit of value...

 

[deadliver]

Also except you're not getting one extra unit, you're getting upto one per turn that you can just throw repeatedly at a city until it falls. Adept-skelly armies are already very effective (10 adepts with Death I), but that means spending the hammers on adepts who aren't exactly combat monsters themselves. Do it with Axemen or (even worse) Archers instead and you have a very resilient army, potentially with supporting ranged attacks, which can summon 40 strength worth of minions per turn to attack with before risking any unit of value...

Yeah I see your point, but you have to admit that giving Amurite units limited access to spells a la Xienwolf's and Warkirby's posts would do a good job of making them different.

What do you think about Sheiam getting puny-casters?

 

[xienwolf]

I think the cleanest approach would be an Amurite Racial promotion, then a series of EffectPromotions (which thus won't show up outside of worldbuilder) which are AutoAcquired and link to UnitType and the Racial promotion. The EffectPromotions would be what grant you access to the new spells, thus allowing the chance to purchase spells to carry through between upgrades (ideally you would whitelist every potential upgrade path so that you don't HAVE to build a scout and then promote manually to ranger to get a unit capable of haste AND treetop defense)

 

[Milaga]

Yeah I see your point, but you have to admit that giving Amurite units limited access to spells a la Xienwolf's and Warkirby's posts would do a good job of making them different.

Even while I was writing that I was thinking about Death I. Metamagic I as well, since we don't want scouts with floating eyes right away either. But I don't see why we need to limit spells to unit types. It might even make implementation easier.

At the very least each unit should have more than one possible promotion, especially if that promotion requires a mana type the Amurites don't start with.

What do you think about Sheiam getting puny-casters?

I'm growing less enthusiastic about pre-adepts. If we give Amurites spellcasting from the get-go, lets give the Sheaim Adepts and Mage Guilds at Mysticism.

 

[deadliver]

I'm growing less enthusiastic about pre-adepts. If we give Amurites spellcasting from the get-go, lets give the Sheaim Adepts and Mage Guilds at Mysticism.

even if Amurites need to get KotE before their units can learn spells the Sheiam should probably get something like puny-casters or maybe earlier adepts like you said. I donno though. Mysticism is already pretty cool so what would KotE do for the Sheiam?

 

[hbar]

I don't see why the Sheiam need mini-casters. They don't share the Amurite's weakness of no cool toys in the early-mid game. Pyre zombies are good enough to keep them alive almost the whole game, and definitely until Sorcery.

 

[WarKirby]

I think the only ting the sheiam need is an early hero, since their hero comes at Divine essence.
I'd give them a hero mage of some discription, with Corruption of Spirit and Necromancy

 

[hbar]

I'm not certain on this, but wouldn't linking it to Corruption of Spirit make said hero unbuildable in No Religion/No Ashen Veil games?

EDIT - Although I certainly agree with the idea, and I think the Kurios should get the same treatment.

 

[WarKirby]

Kuriotates just need Herne. Import him from FFH already.

If art is a problem, I can do some tweaks to the model to make it more unique. but please give them their early hero.

 

[VSPavlov]

My small idea contribution: provide carnivore animals (wolves, tigers etc) with an increased healing rate when they're on tile with animal resource (sheep, horse, deer, etc). Maybe, also provide herbivore animals (elephants etc) with an increased healing rate when they're on tile with flora resource, like wheat. Also, sea monsters can get increased healing rate thanks to abundant Fish resource in the tile.

 

[WarKirby]

Just a thought.
Given their general affinity for the wind, and such, I think Austrin windmills should give +1 food.

Since they seem to start in plains so much, it would allow them to get 2 food out of a plains hill tle, of course sacrificing production by not putting a mine there.

Windmills just seem like such an appropriate fit for them.

 

[WarKirby]

Oh, also, I had a neat idea fro another Austrin UU (Yes, I'm in an Austrin mood today)

Wanderer (Unique unit for Austrin, replaces Immortal)
--------------------------------------------------
The wanderers are the chosen of Tali. A gifted few who have grown detached from the trappings of civilization, and care little for concepts like national borders. They are freed from mortal needs like hunger, at least in the physical sense. But they forever hunger for new horizons, new journeys. Always wandering, never settling in one place long, the wanderers are neither malevolent nor benign. Sometimes helping those in need, sometimes killing and stealing to get what they need.

All they really care about, is getting where they want to go. And Tali help anyone who stands in their way.

• Unitcombat Recon (instead of melee)
• Can explore rival territory (without open borders)
• Can Enter impassable terrain (they climb mountains)
• Ignores terrain movement costs
• +2 visibility range
• 3 base movement
• Str 12 (+1 affinity for Air mana. Cannot use weapons)
• Starts with March (normally unlearnable by recon units)
• Immortal (of course)

 

[thadian]

Mazatl workers should work a little harder. im serious! they are so pathetic and slow that i don't see how they are viable for the AI to use.

even when using them myself, they just can't get started. unless i turn off savages (which i hate doing) between constant bombardment and stoned, drunk workers slacking off with seeming 5% of everyone elses worker rate they just can't get out of the early game.

Maybe i am playing them wrong, i like to have 2 workers for my first city then when i build my second and third cities i like to upgrade to 8 workers. i will assume that either nobody noticed how lame their workers are OR that im supposed to have 60 workers.

Also, i learned NOT to play as them when turning off worker EXP! i did that and i don't even think Lone_Wolf, R_Rolo, AnotherPacifist or any of the other greats can beat a monarch game with mazatl using no worker exp.

 

[Milaga]

Mazatl workers should work a little harder. im serious! they are so pathetic and slow that i don't see how they are viable for the AI to use.

Apart from the fact that they are a worse worker than everyone else, they usually are improving jungles. You've got a penalty to work time for jungles. They also are making improvements without removing the features, and there's another penalty for that. I think they get a bonus to working in jungles to offset the penalty, but they still have two strikes against them. Ever seen an elven slave try to build a workshop in an ancient forest ... without smelting? That's probably the only thing I can think of that's slower than the Mazatl.

 

[Vehem]

Apart from the fact that they are a worse worker than everyone else, they usually are improving jungles. You've got a penalty to work time for jungles. They also are making improvements without removing the features, and there's another penalty for that. I think they get a bonus to working in jungles to offset the penalty, but they still have two strikes against them. Ever seen an elven slave try to build a workshop in an ancient forest ... without smelting? That's probably the only thing I can think of that's slower than the Mazatl.

Aye - already dealt with for next release. As you mentioned, their original slowness is now compounded by the fact we've switched to using the proper terrain types (deep jungle didn't slow improvements down). They're still slow compared to other workers, but are more comparable to the elves...

 

[Thuellai]

Perpetual High-To-Low: In other words, instead of stopping on the third civ switch, I'd like a version of the High-To-Low option that continues throughout the game - whenever one civ you control becomes the highest-scored civ, you become the lowest-scored civ.

 

[Rutee]

I'm making a /big/ idea here, but it's probably (?) not worth its own thread:

Expeditionary Forces. The uselessness of the AI in managing its armies is something I'm sure we're all familiar with, but why should we be burdened by it? My idea is, if you've vassalized someone, you can ask for or otherwise demand temporary control of their troops. Shouldn't be allowed for World Units, but National ones (AKA the ones you can't get more of without vassalizing)? Sure, why not. Probably a special promotion that passes control (and maintenance costs) to you, but leaves the creator still in 'ownership'. Maybe cause a temporary diplo hit when you get them all killed? Or is this just utterly impossible in the current framework (Wouldn't surprise me, since I cribbed it from Victoria).

 

[deadliver]

Anyone have any ideas for an early Sheiam hero? How about a half demon named Nestor who starts off as a divine (or arcane, or both?) and can be upgraded (similarly to Alcinus) with later techs like Malevolent designs.

Nestor passes himself off as a agent of Ceri-whatever-her-name-is. He is feared by Arbandi but despised as a poseur by Os-Gabella. In reality Nestor is an opportunistic creep who thinks he'll get street cred with Agares for helping bring about Armageddon. Maybe give him entropy affinity?