LK155 - CCM, Maya

[Northern Pike]

We raze the city as our premise requires, gaining four workers by the razing and another by capture.

Back at Lagartero we account for a warrior, a pikeman, and two chariots (the latter landed by sea), gaining our first Great Leader of the round, who immediately rushes Bonampak's marketplace (60-10).

Ten slaver victories this round produced three slaves.

One Javelin Thrower victory this round, which was defensive, generated a slave.

Five priest victories this round gave us one monk.

Four elite victories this round yielded one Great Leader.

 

[Northern Pike]

The bloody ground:

 

[LKendter]

Will wait a few to make report is done, but:

ROSTER:

LKendter (up)
Greebley (on deck)
Jersey Joe
Elephantium
Northern Pike

 

[Northern Pike]

The Future


The Dutch seem helpless now, and we're in position to raze Amsterdam next turn. Our catapults are behind the pace, but we have so many attack-three units available we can hardly fail. After that we'll probably be able to get Dark Ages for peace from the Dutch, since we're close already. But we should hammer them as long as we're gaining slaves rather than granting them peace right away, of course.

Since we're in a tech bottleneck, we can only ever get one tech from the Dutch for peace. But we should be alert to the possibility of buying Dark Ages from some other civ and then taking Feudalism from Holland instead.

We don't have war weariness yet, although I think we must be close to the first level. If necessary we can raise the luxury rate to 30% without going into the red.

Our settler now near Bonampak is intended to found a city on the best site we can find in the former Dutch lands. We can't really tell what that will be yet, but Three on the screenshot is a possibility, or we might prefer a site closer to (the ruins of) Amsterdam with more pre-improved tiles.

Before long we should establish colonies on the incense and the iron near the Dutch front.

There's a Dutch stack of seven approaching Lagartero, but it has no attack power and shouldn't give us trouble.

There are Dutch warriors wandering SE of Uxmal and E of Bonampak, and we may able to take shots at them with slavers when they're on flat land. We have slavers south of Uxmal and in Bonampak.

We have quite a few workers fortified on the gold mountain by the ruins of Utrecht, until we can get them to safer positions.

The workers now between Bonampak and Lagartero are needed more at Bonampak, and should improve the sugar tiles there rather than hanging around Lagartero.

The slave now just south of Bonampak (stacked with the settler) can join the two working NE of Tikal, to give us a more efficient number there.

 

[Jersey Joe]

Given we still see only one source of iron, I think we should build our next city on the plains next to the mountain. It will have iron, gold and incense in its fat cross plus enough extra food from the flood plains to work the hills.

 

[Dwarven Zerker]

lurker's comment:
The plain 2 ne of Iron Mountain would capture the camel, gold, iron as well as 4 flood plains at the cost of just 1 desert.

 

[Jersey Joe]

NP: Very good start for the war. I especially liked your inviting the Dutch to bring their Chariots to us.

lurker's comment:
The plain 2 ne of Iron Mountain would capture the camel, gold, iron as well as 4 flood plains at the cost of just 1 desert.

That is the spot I was thinking of but did not describe its location as well as you did.



Another advantage is we can build 2 supply depots to double the city's income.

 

[Northern Pike]

My idea for our first settlement in the Dutch lands was that we should claim a site that already has a good number of improved tiles, for fast city growth. But if the team prefers to establish an absolutely safe grip on the iron and the incense with the spot suggested by JJ and DZ, that's fine too.

 

[LKendter]

1100 AD (0)
(IT) There isn't a lot to decide right now. We are at the ugly part of the tech trade where 2 for 1 is impossible.

1125 AD (1)
AC dies to pike. (0-1)
AC dies to pike. (0-2)
Chariot kills pike going elite. (1-2)
Chariot kills pike. (2-2)
Chariot kills pike. (3-2)
That is the end of the defense in Amsterdam. It is razed for $2, 0 workers, and destroying some ships in port.

Catapult barely kills a spear. (4-2)
Chariot kills a spear. (5-2)

War weariness has already hit, so luxuries up to 30%.
(IT) We lost the chariot that razed Amsterdam. (4-3)

2 warriors committed suicide against our walls. (6-3)

The Polish have complete Great Cathedral.

1150 AD (2)
Enslaver kills a warrior. (7-3)
Catapult kills longsword. (8-3)
AC dies to spear. (8-4)
AC kills spear. (9-4)

I find that Carthage took a French city that got to our continent.
(IT) The Spanish have been destroyed. Wow - that is the second dead civ noticed we've seen already.
We lost an AC. (9-5)

1175 AD (3)
Chariot kills longsword. (10-5)
(IT) Mongolia is building Dodge Palace, just in time for the monster Carthage to complete it.


1200 AD (4)
AC kills spear. (11-5)
Enslaver kills warrior, giving us another worker. (12-5)
AC dies to pike. (12-6)
AC dies to pike. (12-7)
AC kills pike. (13-7)
Way to many retreats, so I take a chance and priest kills injured pike. (14-7)
Priest kills archer. (15-7)
The Hague is razed for $0 and 2 workers.
I ship the USA $452 and $43/T and take dark ages. As I hoped, the Dutch will give us feudalism.

(IT) The Dutch suicide a longsword. (16-7)

 

[LKendter]

1210 AD (5)
A couple of stray warriors appear by Bonampak.
Enslaver kills 1. (17-7)
JT kills the other. (18-7)
A priest kills a stray archer. (19-8)

WOW - war weariness went up again, and the slider goes to 40%. We've proven there is no way you can run republic and go war heavy.

The war has to end shortly. I just want to make sure the new city spot for iron / incense isn't jerked around by the Dutch before signing peace.


1220 / 30 AD (6/7)


1240 AD (8)
Quiriguá is founded by the iron and incense. I disband a chariot to instantly finish national symbol.
I dial up the Dutch, and take feudalism.

 

[LKendter]

Summary
We have a debate how many more wars before being able to mass produce settlers.
The only reasonable options would be backwards Canada just to raze some cities or USA where we might extract something one are payments are done. We can never have enough workers.
At this time we can't buy chivalry. I would keep check around as our cash goes up.
We are no longer the tech laggards. There are a few civs without chivalry. Once we break the science bottleneck, two for one trading should show up again.

ROSTER:
LKendter
Greebley (up)
Jersey Joe (on deck)
Elephantium
Northern Pike

 

[Northern Pike]

The timing of that worked out nicely, with our getting Dark Ages and Feudalism.

It's bad luck that we got no slaves from the razing of Amsterdam. That almost never happens this early.

Given that the last thing we want to do is build more units, I think the best military plan would be just to batter the Dutch again in twenty turns. They'll probably still be weaker than us even if we build no units in the interim; their cities may have grown by then, to yield more slaves; and we'll have as much (or really as little) hope of extorting an Age of Discovery tech out of them as out of any other civ.

 

[Jersey Joe]

We razed 3 of the first 4 Dutch cities built, only Rotterdam (second built) survives. So there is a good chance that we destroyed the Siege workshop, Slaver's Hut, Worker Houses, and the Great Monastery.
Question: If we did destroy any or all of the mentioned Small Wonders can the Dutch rebuild them?

How about (once we get Iron hooked up) we build units to replace existing units instead of paying to upgrade them? We could disband the units being built in our newest city. Our Swordsmen can make workers the same way Javelin Throwers make them. Also, Pikemen could replace Spearmen.

 

[LKendter]

I think the best military plan would be just to batter the Dutch again in twenty turns.

I can get behind this. Our next 20 turn settler could grab a chunk of land that the Dutch already improved, and get up to speed far faster.

How about (once we get Iron hooked up) we build units to replace existing units instead of paying to upgrade them? We could disband the units being built in our newest city. Our Swordsmen can make workers the same way Javelin Throwers make them. Also, Pikemen could replace Spearmen.

I like that as a game plan. Cash right now if far more of a problem then shields. Getting newer units, and bonus shields in our newest cities sounds good.

 

[Elephantium]

How viable is a war with USA or Canada in the requisite 20-turn Dutch peace? I'm concerned about troop movement times making it pointless, but it would be nice to get another crop of slave workers before we hit the Ditch again.

 

[LKendter]

How viable is a war with USA or Canada in the requisite 20-turn Dutch peace? I'm concerned about troop movement times making it pointless, but it would be nice to get another crop of slave workers before we hit the Ditch again.

In 20 turns it would have to be Canada. We bought tech from USA to optimize what we got from the Dutch.

 

[Elephantium]

OK, definitely Canada, assuming that it doesn't take too long to move our SoD.

 

[Greebley]

Ok, I got it. Won't play right away so feel free to comment. Hope to play Sunday.

 

[Jersey Joe]

I think this is a good spot for the next city (I think it is to early to build another shipyard).
I know the city center is on a bonus grass, but this spot has 3 more river tiles than building 1 NW on the mine.

 

[Elephantium]

I'd prefer moving red dot to a river tile. 1E, 1SE, 1W, or 1W-NW

Here are another few more interesting locations: