Tweak Mod for Xtended + Master of Mana Updates

[Jet]

I meant all of those map comments as minor feedback, less important than the other things that are being discussed now. I don't expect you to give much attention to issues that are specific to certain map scripts. I just thought I'd give the feedback then because the topic of dungeons came up.

I like lakes scripts with high sea level because they create map shapes that feel natural, varied, and interesting. The good qualities of the _climate maps are that they implement a flavor start and coherent biomes. MoM seems to benefit a lot from flavor starts. On balance I think I prefer MoM_Lakes_Climate to MoM_Lakes despite the issues I mentioned.

The water tiles in MoM_Erebus maps - such as in this example - seem fine to me. I would settle around this sea no problem. I wonder if you have to be more selective about settling cities in MP.
Regardless - I haven't played enough with the current DLL to know what coastal cities feel like when using it.

Spoiler map :

This map is MoM_Erebus, Human, Temperate, High sea level.

PS: do you mean before 0.3 or with this 'debug' dll for Resource spawning?

About Regenerate Map, I meant that it worked in 1.09. In 0.2, I'm not sure but IIRC it was not working then.

 

[SpyFanatic]

How long until you reckon 0.4 comes along mate? I've been keeping an eye out for it so I can share it across the CivFanatics news and socials.
Already gave you guys in this section a mini plug the other day but want to do something more specific to the great work you guys are doing in the future.

Hi Blake00
At the moment I am not able to foresee a date, could be easily a couple of months... I would like to have more feedback on the tuned down resource spawn before embedding it and I am currently running some games with debug dll to check the different assert and understand if I can spot some error (which I did).
Regarding some 'hot stuff' for AI I have some ideas in mind on why some civs fall behind, but nothing started so it is tricky to understand if those will arrive (all or partially) in 0.4

 

[SpyFanatic]

Hi Jet
Thanks for the feedback, i will wait a little for other active user of the forum in order to have it in 0.4. In the meantime I think that the standalone dll can be used.
On water bonus resources, I think is mostly dependents on map used. We normally play MoM_Erebus and it is really annoying to found on coast as normally it is never fresh water, there is no river, and food is scarce (except exceptional cases of course). I hope that the current dll offers a good tradeoff between your play experience and ours (nb: spawn chance has been halved also for water resources).

On your consideration about _climate maps: yes I agree and this is the reason why we do not play climate... some civs are really placed in horrible spots, where everyone struggles... Can you try t change to the 'nonclimate' version? I never deal with map script, so I am not sure how I can really modify those, but for us solution was to use the nonclimate...

On Regenerate Map, I do not know... But checking the code it seems it is not visible if:

1. If it is not turn 0
2. You have met some other civ
3. the Game or any plot on the map as some 'ScriptData' which I still do not know what they are but seems used by a mod (e.g. the blizzard features on a plot)

PS: do you mean before 0.3 or with this 'debug' dll for Resource spawning?

Found the issue and fixed it. Its due to AIAutoPlay who use map ScripData to keep track of bCanCancelAuto (but then... its always set to true... I did not really catch how it is usefull).
I have removed all the usage and storage of bCanCancelAuto and consider it always True for AIAutoplay.
I can see now that Regenerate Map appears and AIAutoPlay seem still to be working.

PS: please keep in mind that Regenerate Map will not be visible if you meet another civ at turn 0, or if there is some 'ScriptData' associated to a plot, which can be due to some unique feature. This condition has been set as I understood as it can create some map issue on regenerating the map, thus I cannot fix.

 

[fish_sticks]

Ran into an odd bug where a skeleton had crazy anti-Recon resistance of +1662900%. It was not obvious where it came from as it has no special promotions or items. I went into the worldbuilder and removed everything from the unit and it still has that boost. I also went back ~30 turns and it had the boost. I loaded the initial save and it was normal.

There was a necromancer and 2 skeletons that came out of the camp awhile back. Unsure if it is related as I no longer have an autosave that far back.

Removing it in the Worldbuilder was a simple workaround.

Spoiler Screenshot :

 

[fish_sticks]

Attached is a save game where processing to next turn stalls. I has something to do to Garrim Gyr/Basium as removing them from the game solves the problem. I did not see anything specific going on in the Worldbuilder, like completing a wonder, unit or stack of units attacking.

It is possible this is the same specialist bug as their GNP graph went way negative than way positive about 30 turns before this.

 

[SpyFanatic]

Ran into an odd bug where a skeleton had crazy anti-Recon resistance of +1662900%. It was not obvious where it came from as it has no special promotions or items. I went into the worldbuilder and removed everything from the unit and it still has that boost. I also went back ~30 turns and it had the boost. I loaded the initial save and it was normal.

There was a necromancer and 2 skeletons that came out of the camp awhile back. Unsure if it is related as I no longer have an autosave that far back.

Removing it in the Worldbuilder was a simple workaround.

Spoiler Screenshot :

View attachment 684415

This could be due to the fix I mentioned here and that will be present in 0.4

 

[SpyFanatic]

T

Attached is a save game where processing to next turn stalls. I has something to do to Garrim Gyr/Basium as removing them from the game solves the problem. I did not see anything specific going on in the Worldbuilder, like completing a wonder, unit or stack of units attacking.

It is possible this is the same specialist bug as their GNP graph went way negative than way positive about 30 turns before this.

This also I confirm with 0.3 I get stuck, but trying with the wip 0.4 its fine. I did not check exactly what was the issue... but is already fixed!

 

[fish_sticks]

Any thoughts on how Scion's are supposed to get dyes? Theaters require it for construction which is in the chain to train reborn. My start (on hub at least) prefers desert and plains so not even a single tile can have a plantation.

I happened to be lucky on the playthrough as I had chaos mana that enabled me to cast twisted land. This allowed me to place down some early plantations. Without that I am unsure how I would ensure any dyes.

Am I missing some easier path to dyes? Should it be a requirement for Scion theaters?

 

[Ag0range]

Good question. As well, playing as Aristrakh, have quite a shortage of lumber - no lumbermill available yet, all the forests become burned forest...

 

[Jojo_Fr]

- Try to cut every forest in your lands before they are terraformed.
- Build the wood cutting building from the hunting guild.
- Build more defiler to have more wood, herbs etc.

 

[SpyFanatic]

Also, this bonus to get spell research from unimproved forests doesn't seem to be working.

View attachment 682689

Did a game with them and I was able to see since the beginning some spell research, like in the city hoovering with the mouse on spell research I was able to see like +2 from feature.
I think each forest gives 0.25 or something.. so its small but its there...

 

[fish_sticks]

The tooltip for Giantkin states "Population consumes 2 <FOOD>" but should probably state +2 food or 5 food.

I think the paladin art is missing for the Elohim. It is showing the red blob.

Spoiler Screenshot :

 

[fish_sticks]

It seems that the Jotnar (at least under Mother) are able to work the third tiles without any building/upgrades. Is this intended? There is no mention of this in any of the tooltips, leader nor civilization tips.

I assume this is coming from BUILDING_JOT_STAEDDING:

        <BuildingInfo>        <!-- Jot Staedding -->
            <BuildingClass>BUILDINGCLASS_CIV_BUILDING2</BuildingClass>
            <Type>BUILDING_JOT_STAEDDING</Type>
 
            ...

            <iPlotRadius>3</iPlotRadius>
            <PrereqCiv>CIVILIZATION_JOTNAR</PrereqCiv>
        </BuildingInfo>

 

[Jojo_Fr]

By the way, Jotnar are very underpowered. It's too expansive to upgrade citizens, I think it's the main problem.

 

[Felis catus]

Hello Spyfanatic. Playing v0.3 with your new dll. Thank you very much for your efforts.
Resource spawning is slower than before but I feel it would be more reasonable if the rate is reduced more. Resources are still popping on too many tiles from around turn 100 and almost every improvement gets a resource after the middle phase of the game. (Not only for human, almost the same for AI civs.) I think a quarter would be better than a half(though I will be very very happy if you revert the WHOLE resource spawning system back to that of Sephi's version). If you choose to adapt that dll file into v0.4, I would like to modify some values of xml files such as <iAdjacentFindResourceModify> but I am not sure if it would be enough...
And I do not understand why the Trade posts should have such stronger influence on resource discovery than Cottages.

And a bug report. "Your use of magic influences our relation!", the effect of 3 diplomatic Global Enchantment(Aura of Trust, Aura of Tyranny and Aura of Majesty), still remains after the corresponding GE is cancelled. So all 3 effects can be applied to all the neigbors.

 

[SpyFanatic]

It seems that the Jotnar (at least under Mother) are able to work the third tiles without any building/upgrades. Is this intended? There is no mention of this in any of the tooltips, leader nor civilization tips.

I assume this is coming from BUILDING_JOT_STAEDDING:

        <BuildingInfo>        <!-- Jot Staedding -->
            <BuildingClass>BUILDINGCLASS_CIV_BUILDING2</BuildingClass>
            <Type>BUILDING_JOT_STAEDDING</Type>
 
            ...

            <iPlotRadius>3</iPlotRadius>
            <PrereqCiv>CIVILIZATION_JOTNAR</PrereqCiv>
        </BuildingInfo>

Yes this is normal for Jotnar, Civilopedia is outdated, on v0.4 I will adapt the text

 

[grobbelaar]

Hello and many thanks for this great mod !

Two more games with stall at end of turn.
One as Malakim , the other as Scions

hope this helps.

 

[SpyFanatic]

Hello and many thanks for this great mod !

Two more games with stall at end of turn.
One as Malakim , the other as Scions

hope this helps.

Loaded them both on the wip v0.4, press end turn. No stall.
I think that also those maybe could be due to the AI managing Gibbon Goetia Body Snatch spell.
If you want to continue the game, maybe you can enter worldbuilder, track the Gibbon Goetia unit and delete it. You should be able to pass the turn and resume your game!

 

[SpyFanatic]

Hello Spyfanatic. Playing v0.3 with your new dll. Thank you very much for your efforts.
Resource spawning is slower than before but I feel it would be more reasonable if the rate is reduced more. Resources are still popping on too many tiles from around turn 100 and almost every improvement gets a resource after the middle phase of the game. (Not only for human, almost the same for AI civs.) I think a quarter would be better than a half(though I will be very very happy if you revert the WHOLE resource spawning system back to that of Sephi's version). If you choose to adapt that dll file into v0.4, I would like to modify some values of xml files such as <iAdjacentFindResourceModify> but I am not sure if it would be enough...
And I do not understand why the Trade posts should have such stronger influence on resource discovery than Cottages.

And a bug report. "Your use of magic influences our relation!", the effect of 3 diplomatic Global Enchantment(Aura of Trust, Aura of Tyranny and Aura of Majesty), still remains after the corresponding GE is cancelled. So all 3 effects can be applied to all the neigbors.

I think the difference game type and resource spawn can be due to the type of game. When first we had a game with the modified dll, we got barely 3-4 resources each in 250 turns. But then, on last game, we started to use cottages and trade post and yeah, we ended up on turn 250 with a lot of spawned resources. Please also note that in the kind of game of used to play we focus more on battles as we have roughly 3 hours to play... So we do not improve the land a lot after the initial 3 cities... additionally it is probably tricky for me to reproduce with AIs as they are not using improvements as human does.
I will check on Sephi implementation and I am considering maybe to add a game option for that... I do want to keep you satisfied with the resource spawning... But I am also selfish and I want to improve also our gaming experience !
Will check and let you know...

On the GE you reported, can you maybe provide a savegame? I have noticed that in CvPlayer RemoveGlobalEnchantment the "Your use of magic influences our relation!" is not explicitly removed, but I am wondering if maybe those has a 'remove after xx turns' or something like that... It is tricky for me to try to reproduce a gameplay, but in case of savegame for me it is really faster and I jump immediately to the fix.

Last, two questions for everyone:

1. Where is Orthus? I remember it used to spawn, but we just started to realize its a lot of games it does not appears... Maybe also before v.02...
2. We noticed a decrease of Lair demanding tribute... Did someone notice the same? Or maybe can it be due to the type of map, as we have now switched to MoM_Lakes_Climate (before we were used to play MoM_Erebus)?

Thanks!

 

[fish_sticks]

Terraforming is not blocked by the Amurites worldspell. While the spell shows in red it still lets me cast it without any problem.

In this case I was the Dural. Unsure if that is related but it is probably just an oversight for those types of spells.