SGOTM8 Maintenance Thread - Hydrophobic Americans.

[I. Larkin]

"Unit teleportation to foreign locations by gifting or deliberately abandoning cities is not allowed. Gyathaar's "Dunkirk" retrieval option is permitted, but the situation should be carefully noted in your turn log."
It is not clear. "Dunkirk" very difficult to define.
According to rule 2 palace will be at "not foreing" location and second core must have 7 Cities (including new capital). Can we teleport workers, settlers, leaders to new home?
How canons and arty may be transported?

 

[Gyathaar]

What about armies?

No.. this is why I added leaders to the list..

and before you ask:
no artillery units (except tactical nukes and cruice missiles)

 

[AlanH]

"Unit teleportation to foreign locations by gifting or deliberately abandoning cities is not allowed. Gyathaar's "Dunkirk" retrieval option is permitted, but the situation should be carefully noted in your turn log."
It is not clear. "Dunkirk" very difficult to define.

As suggested by Gyathaar, you may gift a city on foreign territory that is imminent danger of being captured/destroyed, and in doing so you may recover units that would otherwise be killed in that battle by teleportation.

According to rule 2 palace will be at "not foreing" location and second core must have 7 Cities (including new capital). Can we teleport workers, settlers, leaders to new home?

No. I used "foreign" to mean a location that is on a different continent from your current palace.

How canons and arty may be transported?

They can't. You'll have to build them where you want them or live without them There are other units that can be use for bombardment which can be transported.

 

[pindicator]

Might be a little late to mention this (should have thought of this earlier), but it would be neat to play on the hydrophobic theme a little more with rivers. Perhaps taking out the "bridges" feature of engineering, keeping the movement penalty across rivers to account for our fear of water on the mainland.

 

[AlanH]

Maybe you're right. I'll let Gyathaar comment on that, but I'm afraid there's no time left to test additons to the rule set now. If this one's succcessful maybe we'll play a Director's Cut version later?

 

[Gyathaar]

Might be a little late to mention this (should have thought of this earlier), but it would be neat to play on the hydrophobic theme a little more with rivers. Perhaps taking out the "bridges" feature of engineering, keeping the movement penalty across rivers to account for our fear of water on the mainland.

Bit late for this.. cant just disable it in engineering tech, since then AIs cant cross rivers either.. I cant think of a good way to do this. (easiest would be to give all the AIs the ability to cross rivers from be beginning of game I think)

 

[grahamiam]

I agree with I.Larkin re: "Dunkirk" is too hard to define. Why not just disallow city-gifting to the AI? We disallow boat transport, why can't we disallow the not-often-used game exploit/flaw of unit teleportation via city gifting?

 

[AlanH]

@grahamian: I was trying to be kind, and I would think the sprit of the rule Gyathaar and I have suggested is pretty obvious. If you insist on a clear and simple rule we can make it so:

You may not teleport units by gifting or abandoning cities. You can only gift or abandon an empty city.

 

[AlanH]

May be Gyathaar can make a list of what is banned and what is allowed for this game.

Gyathaar and I are not going to attempt to do, in the space of a couple of days, more than has already been done for GOTM.

The GOTM rules define major exploits as allowed or banned. They further state that if you wish to use an exploit that is not included in those lists then you should only do so after consulting the Staff. GOTM has used this approach for over fifty games, and SGOTM has survived for seven games.

We are trying to resolve one specific issue that has been raised - teleportation. Let's do that and deal with any other specific ones you would like to discuss.

 

[akots]

... You may not teleport units by gifting or abandoning cities. You can only gift or abandon an empty city.

That pretty much closes the issue imo. Thanks for clearing this up.

 

[I. Larkin]

No. I used "foreign" to mean a location that is on a different continent from your current palace.
I did not understand this. Any unit will be teleported to "current" Capital before Flight.

"You may not teleport units by gifting or abandoning cities. You can only gift or abandon an empty city." I thought you will allowed any teleportation to the Capital, but it is up to you.
GOTM has used this approach for over fifty games, and SGOTM has survived for seven games.

IMHO that this mode make game so unusual that expoits will be very special. Some of them I'd like (as akots) to keep in secret. That's why we need a list. I assume, that many of them affects all (this) game strategy but useles at "normal" game.

 

[AlanH]

No. I used "foreign" to mean a location that is on a different continent from your current palace.
I did not understand this. Any unit will be teleported to "current" Capital before Flight.

I was trying to prohibit teleportation during a palace jump to a "foreign" continent

"You may not teleport units by gifting or abandoning cities. You can only gift or abandon an empty city." I thought you will allowed any teleportation to the Capital, but it is up to you.

You and grahamian complained about the retreat exception I tried to give you, and seem to want a simple rule. So I've changed it to a simple rule with no retreat exception.

GOTM has used this approach for over fifty games, and SGOTM has survived for seven games.

IMHO that this mode make game so unusual that expoits will be very special. Some of them I'd like (as akots) to keep in secret. That's why we need a list. I assume, that many of them affects all (this) game strategy but useles at "normal" game.

You cannot assume that Gyathaar and/or I know of all the exploits that you and akots are aware of. So I'm not going to give you a definitive list of banned exploits we do know, and then allow you a free hand to use any other exploit that you know of. You simply have to PM me before you use a suspect play, and tell me why you think it should be allowed. I'll discuss it with the staff and respond. Your secret will not reach the other teams.

 

[Gyathaar]

Some of them I'd like (as akots) to keep in secret. That's why we need a list. I assume, that many of them affects all (this) game strategy but useles at "normal" game.

If you want to keep then 'secret', then I suggest you ask about them in a PM, and it can then be posted if they are not allowed (and if allowed you can use them for your team without other teams knowing the details about it).
If I posted all the strats I could think about there would not be much difference between the teams I expect

 

[conehead234]

Question, we need oil for helicopters, what would happen if ones oil is exhausted? How would we get off the island?

 

[Gyathaar]

Question, we need oil for helicopters, what would happen if ones oil is exhausted? How would we get off the island?

dont worry about this..

 

[grahamiam]

@grahamian: I was trying to be kind, and I would think the sprit of the rule Gyathaar and I have suggested is pretty obvious. If you insist on a clear and simple rule we can make it so:

You may not teleport units by gifting or abandoning cities. You can only gift or abandon an empty city.

many thanks I just want to avoid the rancor we saw in a certain other sgotm, and I hope I didn't come across at indignant this also saves the two of you the trouble of defining "Dunkirk" and then being second guessed.

Can't wait to see what Gyathaar and you did to the map to make this varient playable

 

[M60A3TTS]

May one inquire as to what percent water the archi map is, or is that classified?

 

[civ_steve]

dont worry about this..

Actually, we need Oil and Rubber. I suppose I needn't worry about that either?

 

[denyd]

A couple of design questions:

Do huts give the standard settler or the XOTM worker?

Have any of the resources be modded to non-expire?

Do the Vanilla/PTW/C3C teams all face the same opponents (ie no SEA/AGR in C3C)?

Thanks, this looks like a fun one.

 

[Gyathaar]

May one inquire as to what percent water the archi map is, or is that classified?

Since maps are available pretty early for all teams, I see no reason to give the percent.. but map is fully handmade so doesnt follow any standard values.

Do huts give the standard settler or the XOTM worker?

The worker from hut is standard in the SGOTM mod

Have any of the resources be modded to non-expire?

Yes

Do the Vanilla/PTW/C3C teams all face the same opponents (ie no SEA/AGR in C3C)?

All AIs have their default classic and C3C traits.. so there may be AGR or SEA civs in the C3C version if any of the civs that has gotten traits changed are in the game. The opponent civs are the same in all versions thou

Thanks, this looks like a fun one.

I hope so too