GOTM-1: Closing Spoiler

[Quantum7]

I finished with a Spaceship victory in 1864, roughly 34.000 points

Lessons learnt / notes of interest:
- Caste System. I started using this way too late.
- Early Great Scientist. I waited for my first wonders to produce a great engineer. Instead I should have opted for the 50% science boost from a great scientist (with a library chop).
- Bureaucracy. I should have gotten Civil Service alot earlier / should have gotten it with the Oracle.
- Mercantilism in combination with Caste System, Representation, Pacifism and Statue of Liberty is pretty powerful.
- At some point it probably is better to switch onwards to Free Religion, Universal Suffrage & Emancipation.
- Don't switch to Universal Suffrage if you are using mercantilism & have alot of farms (--> can support a lot of specialists). I did this and it killed my research rate, while I had enough production (with 3 forests left ).
- While researching the last 8 techs or so my research rate was way too slow (around 1.400). In the end it was 2.500 (tnx mostly due to switching back to representation)
- Specialize cities even more. Especially Commerce Cities v.s. GP cities. I had several cities which were pretty good in both (which naturally means they don't have enough farms or cottages for either goal).
- More workers. If I have more workers I would probably have put more attention into replacing some of my early farms with cottages.
- Slightly more cottages. I only went positive when I built wall street in my Holy City.
- Don't make the play sessions too long. The 'one more turn' syndrome causes me to press enter without thinking about my strategy .
- Prioritize techs even further. I probably shouldn't have bothered going i.e. Optics & Astronomy so fast. I was so far ahead of the AI that the only thing I ever traded was Horse Back Riding.
- Generate a great merchant (using caste system) just before you get caravels. The money earned from a single great merchant is enough to use 100% research for eons.
- Athens ended up being the largest city . It was generating 100+ GPP at one point in time while still growing (without wonders, just specialists)
- Changing multiple cities temporarily to GPP is pretty effective. I went from 1.000 GPP to 1.800 GPP in like 20 turns (5 different cities reached each threshold succesfully, 2 engineers, 1 merchant, 2 prophets).

Some questions:
- My trade routes with astronomy never were worth much, probably because the AI is so far behind in terms of population?
- How do you research the necessary techs for the space fictory fastest? I researched Robotics first (for Apollo program), then the Space Elevator tech (for which I had 1 great engineer ready (a 2nd appeared just before it finished)). Then I went for the most expensive components first, however it all took alot of turns. (I had apollo program finished in roughly 1750-60).

 

[SwedishChef]

Wow. Thanks for the informative and helpful post.

Although, to be honest, given you had such an early space victory with all those "mistakes," I'd be pretty interested in hearing what you think you did right, as well, since you clearly must have done quite a bit right.

In particular, I'd like to hear your thoughts on:

Workers - when you make them and how many

Wonders - being so far ahead in tech, did you build them all, or nearly all? If so, did you have special "wonder buliding" cities?

Food - it sounds like you really must have emphasized food and growth. Can you talk a little bit about your strategies for that?

When do you start working on your first Great Person? I tend to put it off for probably too long, preferring to emphasize food and working the land. but it also kills me to reduce the number of hammers being produced, since I'm a builder who does not specialize cities enough.

The space elevator still exists? I thought they took it out when they patched.

Thanks for the info.

 

[Quantum7]

In a more positive hindsight:
- I expanded agressively towards the Greece. My 2nd city was actually placed in the southeast, at the spot with the horses, clam and pigs. This became a VERY useful city in the war (2 turn praetorians, 3 turns away from his cities) (It pretty much handled the war single handedly)
- I had almost NO road network till very late. The rivers + sailing had every single city connected without roads.
- Next to no military (no archery or horseback riding) till 5 cities. The AI doesn't seem to attack along as you have enough warriors walking around. The third or fourth non-warrior unit I made was a preatorian .

Wow. Thanks for the informative and helpful post.

Although, to be honest, given you had such an early space victory with all those "mistakes," I'd be pretty interested in hearing what you think you did right, as well, since you clearly must have done quite a bit right.

This was my earliest finish by far, although I have several games going on on emperor level that I've pretty much won. (once I get into a winning position, I tend to get bored with the game, as the AI doesn't seem to put up much up of a counter-challenge). GOTM seems to help a bit though .

Workers - when you make them and how many

I started with one worker, then chopped a second. Then I used both to chop a settler & warrior. Next another worker & settler & warrior. Each settler immediately had a worker accompanying him to the new position (if useful ofcourse). With 4-5 cities I probably had 8-10 workers running around pretty quickly (to also chop pyramids). With chopping you tend to need more as you both need to chop & improve.

I tend to try to make workers & settlers using chops as that will allow your city to keep growing. I probably should have built even more workers as I was way too slow later on. Next time I'll probably try to stay at roughly 2 per city for quite some time.

Wonders - being so far ahead in tech, did you build them all, or nearly all? If so, did you have special "wonder buliding" cities?

My initial wonders were in the cities with forests next to them. The pyramids was built using chops in the fourth city (next to the stone). It ended up being one of my worst cities though (not a very good place as it needed civil service to grow (too many plains, no food tiles)).

Alot of my later wonders went into two primary wonder cities (Rome (1st founded) and Antium (founded SSW of the 2nd gems). The idea was to make these GPP cities, but I built too much commerce for that to be very viable. Eventually I pretty much built a wonder in whatever city was available and had enough production (most cities had good production).

In retrospect I had too many wonders and not enough focussed. I'm not sure yet what would be most effective. Maybe:
1. 1 great engineer wonder city (with enough food for 3 engineers)
2. 1 other wonders city
3. 1-2 specialist GPP cities (with next to no production, like Athens )
4. Lots of commerce cities (with eventually only cottages)

2 & 3 can probably be combined, as Athens had full specialists without even having flood plains.

I pretty much had all wonders built (probably missed only 5 or so). I have trouble resisting researching every possible tech & building every possible wonder.

Food - it sounds like you really must have emphasized food and growth. Can you talk a little bit about your strategies for that?

The idea was to get alot of cities fast. I went to 5 cities very fast. The next 4 cities or so went pretty slow (too slow probably, although my economy was pretty stable). Most importantly probably were getting the courthouses as fast as possible. All other techs & improvements seemed only to help a little bit. Even currency. Note: I should have used the merchants from caste system as well. Code of Laws anyway is the most necessary tech to get early (courthouses can be chopped pretty easily as well!).

When do you start working on your first Great Person? I tend to put it off for probably too long, preferring to emphasize food and working the land. but it also kills me to reduce the number of hammers being produced, since I'm a builder who does not specialize cities enough.

I got my first GP (great engineer) from my Pyramids city. It then quickly built the great library. Pretty effective, although it was a bit late. Next time I'll try getting a great scientist using a library chop (as the AI seems to do).

The space elevator still exists? I thought they took it out when they patched.

Yes. I had to build it in Rome though; all the other good production cities were not high enough on the equator.

 

[Memphus]

Well after a very longwinded thread, albeit informative
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=143828, and the conclusion that it is not an exploit, my first GOTM is in.

Game status: Domination Victory
Game date: 1825 AD
Firaxis score: 43799

Comments:

-very quickly realized alone with alexander...stayed at war with him and jsut ran around so he focused on nothing but killing my 1 warrior

-I can never decide which victory to go for, where as I am sure the best players know pretty quickly how they are gonna win. So my moto was one city build units only, all other focus on growth/infrasturcture

-upon discovering the world (and a huge tech lead) I decided to go north with left over pratoerians to kill mansa musa before any other civs found him and became friends (Should have done this faster as first couple of citys fell no problem... but then he has cho-ko's and it was a much harder battle)

-Bismark was easy to befriend since he doesn't value religion that much, open borders spread my religion get him to convert and a strong ally.

-Send him to war with montezuma just as I am cleaning up Mansa, so his defence is weak for my transfering troups. By this time everyone has longbows good thing my city raider *3 + 2*strenth praets can be upgraded to grenadiers now.

-Calvary rush and grenadiers to kill montezuma. Now this is where it was getting hard because I like infastructure more than warring...still really only had one city dedicated to making units on the homeland.

-Isabella was the hardest to fall ...stupid culture to forever to get there(prolly should just killed bismark to cover the enough of the world but being loyal is fun)

-notes
-fun game thanks mods
-I wish there was a set out victory condition as I can never decide...especially right around 1500 a.d. as they are all usually viable
-being first to circumnavigate the globe was a large asset
-But the biggest factor was stunting alexander off the bat, i tend to do that in a lot of games after initial exploration just go park near a capital declare war and run around...silly AI they stop all growth
-Decided to go for domination after reading threads on how population is a huge factor in score...Where as if I had jsut stay at home and build..i.e. democracy win (UN was build by me like 5 turns before I won) the score would have been much lower

If anyone wants dates/times more specifics let me know.

 

[Rhandom]

Domination in 1956, 18672 points

I probably killed off Alexander way too slowly. I think it was about 1500. I had the rest of continent pretty well occupied, 6 or 7 cities, and then took I think his 6. I had fought an earlier war, taking two of his cities, but I needed to get a peace to protect my Iron source.

I had caravels out and pretty well knew my opponents. I figured a space race would be easy, I had a ridiculous tech lead already. But I wanted to do a domination for my first GOTM. I researched and built for cash production, figuring all that silk, dye and gems would let me quickly upgrade. I got 8 galleons together, and was going to invade right after rifles, but then infantry was like 5 turns aways, and saved for that. Meanwhile, I had built money to easily get 900-1000 gold per turn with 30% left for research.

I went east and landed 8 boat loads at two points in Monty's northern part of the continent, and quickly wiped him out. By the time I finished, I could upgrade to artillery, and just slaughtered the germans who had just developed gunpowder. By the time the germans were done, I was landing the first tanks, which swept over Izzy rapidly - she was further behind than the germans, and I frequently had tanks fighting (and losing....) to longbows. A few turns later, her cities settle down and there's domination.

 

[deggesim]

I finished with the marvelous score of.... ehm..... 0
Destroyed by greeks and spanish

 

[LeSphinx]

I finish the game by a space ship victory in 2022AD with a final score of 6600 points...

I made a lot of mistake:
- the first one, I had not a real strategy of success: What type of victory I planned
- I do not convert to the religion I founded. I forget to go it when I discovere hindouism and founded it.... I realize that around 1600AD because I was suprise to not generate Great People as I used to do!!!! I was very angry and upset! As no reload can be done, I had the follow the game...
- the other error I've done was to found my 3 city south Est instead West near the Iron Source in order to secure it... Then meanwhile Greek found one city near the iron source!!!! During the different step of the war against Greek, I take 2 times thy city and lost it 2 times!!!! it was a very very lost of time....

Reading some report of players, I realy impressed by their game and results!!!

LeSphinx
LeSphinx

 

[Markus5]

Do chops go toward wonders?

 

[karmina]

Do chops go toward wonders?

Yes, and they recieve the full production bonus. E.g. 67=2.25*30 for forge+marmor for Parthenon.

 

[Markus5]

Yes, and they recieve the full production bonus. E.g. 67=2.25*30 for forge+marmor for Parthenon.

This is why I play GOTM. I learn more from the spoilers than if I read the fine manual.

 

[SwedishChef]

So here's a question. Anybody know why the tech costs are "not accurate?" Here's what I mean:

Take GOTM1, for example. In the very early game, I've got one city and no improvements, so the arithmetic is pretty straightforward. I've loaded a saved game from 3440, and there's lonely tiny Rome, and that's all. It's got only a palace and is at population 2, in the middle of building it's first worker.

I have 11 commerce. 8 from the palace, 1 from the city center, and 1 each from the two tiles being worked by the two current citizens. (There are no tile improvements yet.) There are no trade routes.

Science is at 100%, meaning I should generate 11 beakers. And that is what the city screen says. it's also what is reported if I hit F2.

But on the main "world view," let's mouse-over the tech bar at the top. In my case, I'm researching Polytheism and am at 96 out of 140. But wait a second, when I first picked Polytheism to research it said 11 turns? What's going on? 140/11 = 14 turns... Even with leftover science (at most 10 beakers) from my first discovery, it should be 13 turns...

But when I hit "Next Turn," and mouse-over the tech bar again, I'm now at 110 out of 140 and have earned FOURTEEN beakers of science, instead of 11.

My city has not grown.
The tiles I'm working have not changed.
I have no improvements or civics affecting science.

In fact, when I researched Mysticism it said 7 turns even though the tech is 70 beakers and I was only earning 9 commerce per turn for the first 8 turns before my growth to size 2 (working the food tile which isn't on the river). That should have been 8 turns. But instead of earning 9 beakers, I received 10 each turn.

Since this game is on Noble, we receive no science bonus, right? We should be paying the real cost of the tech, but we're not. We get some sort of mysterious unidentified bonus. Anybody know why?

My only thought so far has been an adjustment based on the number of Civs that know the tech, like they did back in Civ3 when well-known techs became cheaper to research. However, here Polytheism hasn't been discovered, which I know because I'm the one who founds Hinduism.

Perhaps there's a bonus even if another civ is just researching the same tech? I don't know.

Anyway, I'd always looked at the "turns required" number and not bothering to do the beaker-math myself, until the first few turns of this GOTM when I decided to try to analyze things a bit more. That's when I noticed it, and I still can't explain it.

 

[AlanH]

So here's a question. Anybody know why the tech costs are "not accurate?"

Check out this thread in the Bugs forum. Basically, there appear to be undocumented bonus beakers. Some players have worked it all out.

 

[hrc333]

My First Spoiler Post

Ok...so I had decided to go for a diplomatic victory. Never done this before in any of the Civ games. This is also the first CivIV game I had gotten pass 500 ad due to pre patch crashing.

Well basically play isolationist and try and pump out Hindu missionaries to convert nations to my religion so they will vote for me. Well first problem is most will not give me open boarders. Only Mao & Saladin. Mao is an atheist and gladly accepts my rel. and quickly converts. We become life long friends. We never get a neg. modifier to our relationship. As for Saladin, I send over a couple of missionaries only to learn he has Theocracy. Crap! Had forgotten about this. Should have known since it is his fav. civic

There are many wars going on on the other continent and I make some mistakes about trading with peoples worst enemy. In fact I never do recover from these mistakes.

I get the UN in 1872 and will be elected chairman ever time. I will get Mao's vote every time and eventually get Bismark’s but this leaves me 8 points short. I never do get the 8 points. A mistake I make in here is that I kept trying to get the Spanish vote and trade her a bunch of items to win her favor. But in doing so, I made her powerful enough that she became my main rival right at the time I think I would have had her vote

I do eventually go to war on the other continent try to make some more friends by getting a common enemy. We all wipe the Aztecs off the map but I only get around half the cities cause Spain steals the last couple from me.

I shift my focus once again and go for Space Race Victory. I rush the space elevator and am able to beat Mau to space in 2004.

Score: 8236
Space Race Victory
2004 AD
11hrs 1min

Lessons learned: Really too many to list but these are the ones that jump out at me.
- Don't forget about Great People. Did not get my first one till 1100's and not a Great Prophet till 1800's.
- Stick with a plan for Victory I gave up on conquest to quickly once I wipe out the Greeks. I was afraid to launch an assault across the sea. This I think was my best path to victory in hindsight.
If going for a Diplomatic Victory, plan ahead. I really only start to pay close attention to my relationships once I had the UN. This is way to late if you expect to get the votes you need.
Specialty Cities I had way to many generic cities. Average at everything, great at nothing. Not the best plan. I also did not use my workers to change improvements. This is a big mistake I think.
Watch for poachers In the last war with the Aztecs, I would beat down a city only to have the Spanish come in and take the city. I did this 3 or 4 times. Man you think I would learn.

There are many more little things, but these are the ones that jump out at me. I am excited to the next GotM. I have learned how to log events and take screen shots so hopefully my spoiler posts will become more fun to watch

 

[Jason Fliegel]

One solution to your diplomatic woes could have been to declare war on Saladin, Montezuma, or Isabella -- the extra territory you take from them would translate into extra votes. Just be careful that you don't declare war on one of Bismarck's or Mao's friends or you might lose their votes.

 

[Shillen]

Mao is an atheist and gladly accepts my rel. and quickly converts.

Funny how differently games turn out. Mao founded 3 different religions in my game.

 

[A'AbarachAmadan]

Well, finally finished after over 16 hours. Decided to start out going for the fastest cultural victory. I'm about to go on vacation and have a rough week at work coming up prior, so I'll definately get a detailed write-up out, but it may not be until after I get back. Bottom line is I finished in 1600/1605AD (depending upon if you count turn it stated or turn of game save after victory reached) with a score of over 34K. My three cities became legendary in 1585AD-Sparta (thanks Greeks for such a great spot), 1600AD-Antium and 1600AD-Rome. I never colonized off the island, except for a Great Merchant and two Jewish missionaries. I finished the Greeks off in 100AD (started fighting in 425BC) with nothing but Praetorians and Axemen (that had been upgraded from Warriors). Apache was a nice grab from the barbs, but my son moved some of my pieces while I was on the phone on two different occasions, so I actually lost Apache three times - once was my own fault. Much more detail to follow.

 

[_speedy_]

My first GOTM, and my first cultural victory (I don't remember ever winning a game that way in Civ 3 either). 10100 points in 1979.

Initially I wasn't sure what victory I was headed for, but as soon as I could I started pumping out Praetorians until I'd defeated Alex. Along the way I'd founded Hinduism and Confucism (I also later founded Islam), but had no idea of the other civs so I thought I'd have a go at cultural victory, and started focusing on wonders and culture buildings in Rome, my second city (built at the bend in the river west of Rome, near the horses) and a third city built on the coast SW of Rome near copper and stone sources. Each eventually ended up with 5 or so wonders and the full set of buildings for my 3 religions. Nothing too much happened for the rest of the game, I sent a few missionaries across the oceans and steadily built culture in the 3 main cities. I probably could have concentrated more on pumping out artists in my other cities and finished a bit earlier, but I was also working on my spaceship at the end incase I didn't get the culture in time.

Don't know how long it took me to play - the game says 25 hours or something like that, but I was AFK a lot of the time.

 

[Celebithil]

At the beginning of the game I beelined for Iron working to get Preatorians to wipe out my nearest (or most advantageously located) neighbour. Only when I discovered Iron Working all the iron I knew was the one located near Athens. I had explored the entire island except due east of Rome because I figured it would be mostly ocean, and a greek scout had covered it (so there were no villages). For a GOTM this was not surprising, but I still had expected to be dealed with gently on the first Civ 4 GOTM. I sent a warrior to look there just to be certain, found the iron and immediately founded a city on top of it.

After a bit of a too long dragged out war, Greece was conquered a little after 500 AD (Alexander's axemen had been annoying). Then I proceeded to make a dotmap and filled it in. I just was a bit too enthousiastic since before finishing the dot map I already had to adjust my research rating to 10% not to go into the red. I figured this out too late since I had been using the profits from the greek war to cover the deficits. When I ran out of money and realized I could not run a profit I delayed the foundation of my last city, but that was already too late. Fortunately undeveloped just founded cities develop quickly and within about 20 turns I was up above 50% research and it has gone up ever since (until the end game gave a profit at 100% research).

Since I was expecting a long stay on my island and no outside interference I planned ahead and designated some cities as production powerhouses, others as food stores (for GPP) and most as commerce cities. I perhaps carried this specialization through too much, since what was to be my biggest city never even created a GP, since there were too many unhappy people (at one point 7, and I wasn't even at war) and lacking any production whatsoever (I had even put windmills on the two grasshills surrounding it) it couldn't build happiness buildings. It did get to size 29 though at the end. On the other hand, the city which was to be the biggest production city didn't grow enough to work all mined hills around it.

At this stage I also decided to go for a space victory, since my other games had resulted in one cultural win, one diplo win, and a domination win (at 63.91% of land space BTW, how can that be?) and conquest did not seem appropriate being on an isolated island.

Mao found me (and why do I have to look hard to find his caravel so I can guess where he lives?) first, but I had caravels out before the four powers on the main continent. I managed to spread buddhism to Bismarck and he remained my loyal friend throughout the game (but I helped him by giving him about 5 techs throughout the game when he asked for it, so he really should have) and I managed to convert Mao to my side as well. Saladin was a bit undecided (and while running theocracy, could not be converted) and Isabella and Montezuma were both very annoyed.

The rest of the game was pretty uneventfull, I got a tech lead, but didn't manage to discover techs quickly enough to keep my cities occupied building buildings so at one point I let them update my army (to prevend everyone from getting ideas), and mostly got them building research between buildings. One mistake was that I signed a defensive pact with Bismarck, which dragged me in a war with Montezuma. I went over with a small army, took one city, gifted it to Bismarck (it would have been useless to me anyway) and signed peace.

The spaceship was built in 1941 for 19124 points. Mao would have finished the Apollo program in 1944 had I played on and the rest was even further behind. Funnily enough I didn't even know flight at that time. Somewhere I made the mistake of researching mass media (probably to get hollywood and more happiness in those unhappy GPP cities i was still struglling with) and build the UN. Loading an older save game I could have gotten a diplo victory (with Mao and Bismarck on my side) earlier as well (and it gave me more points as well, I got 20001 for a diplo in 1937 or so).

Things learned:
1) specialize cities, but in moderation.
2) moving in to pillage strategic resources will shorten wars in the end.
3) the early victory bonus is huge, so go for conquest/domination for high scores.
4) When expanding, watch at what rate you still run a profit, even if you have enough money to run a deficit for a while, that money will run out eventually.
5) Be careful before signing a defensive pact, especially if you only do it to please a friend, it displeases other friends and may get you in a war, which is also be bad for relations.
6) A town is better than a plantation (for commerce), especially if you run free speech (which I like to do), so consider not putting a plantation on all dyes, silks etc. if you don't need the resource (for happiness or trade).
7) Consider building a few farms at first to grow a city and changing them later to cottages, or production improvements to get cities going.

 

[Octavian X]

I feel a bit out of place - I played this game as a peaceful builder. I didn't ever declare war, and only caputured a Greek city via culture (though both Montezuma and Isabella attacked me, I used my good relationship with Alexander to get him to do the dirty work).

I lagged behind for a lot of the game, until I managed to research Divine Right first to build the Spiral Minaret. That, along with the Hindu wonder, really boosted my revenue so I could take a tech lead and hold it till the end of the game (it had also helped that I had taken the time to ensure all of Alexander's cities were Hindu).

For the curious:

 

[Torisen]

I had over 20 cities on the main continent, but didn't get off the continent; just didn't feel like fighting, I guess. After some initial tech trades, I never trailed in tech - 20 cities at 100% research for most of the game will do that, I guess. (Courthouses, 1 religion that I spread off-continent, and some missed wonders kept me at 100% most of the time after I got the infrastrucutre in place).

Space race victory in 1933 - 21K points. Would've been earlier, but I forgot that I needed 3 sets of thrusters until after I was trying to figure out why the game wasn't over - had to burn an extra 5 years there.

This was my 2nd complete civ IV game, both on Noble. Both were strong early starts with lots of food, and came together for a runaway space race victory.

As a side note, I like to win conquest victories, but I find the work-around of purging cities to be an artificial constraint that rankles; It would be much better if on an unsatisfying victory type like domination you had the option to declare victory instead of automatically winning. And I really want to be able to battle me-against-the-world when the computer wins a diplomatic victory (I assume you cannot).