SGOTM 13 - Plastic Ducks
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Not really, it's Epic speed and by the F9 screen, most AIs are inland so not many wb's.
Sorry to displease you Alan, but I gotta agree with my teammates here. True, we could have each played 10 turns instead but there might be a delay of 1 day each time... putting us back 1 week (we like to finish on time
). There really isn't that much to do as a team once we've agreed on an opening on this particular scenario for the first ~50 turns so we might as well get to the team part.In any case, this is most likely the only time where such a long set is happening, there are many paths available ahead now.
AlanH, I respect your work for the community and I feel myself is always willing to obey the rule! However I don't feel good about your posts.
First, Your criticized that I violated the rule.
After my explanation, you were off the topic and then questioned about our play style.
From many SG games, a long session for the opening is very normal. Take our team for example, in SGOTM12, dingding played the 1st session to T47 and SGOTM12 is NORMAL SPEED, which equal to 70 turns in an EPIC SPEED game as SGOTM13. For this game, due to the special starting site, the 1st 60 turns only takes no more than 10 minutes and the only thing to be discussed is where to send the scouting WB until T53 (we don't even have the choice to move the initial warrior) and that's why we decided to pause then.
My understanding of the spirit of a SUCCESSION game is "to play the game according to the team decision, but not everyone plays an equal length of session!" Edit: On the contrary, if 1 turn takes half hour as the the late stage of SGOTM12, how do you expect everyone to play 10 to 15 turns in a session? For myself, the meaningful stop point of a session is when there is something to be discussed so that sometime we only played 1 short turn. I don't think it makes sense to play short set when there's nothing to be discussed and only leads to the waste of time to pass save to another player.
First, Your criticized that I violated the rule.
After my explanation, you were off the topic and then questioned about our play style.
From many SG games, a long session for the opening is very normal. Take our team for example, in SGOTM12, dingding played the 1st session to T47 and SGOTM12 is NORMAL SPEED, which equal to 70 turns in an EPIC SPEED game as SGOTM13. For this game, due to the special starting site, the 1st 60 turns only takes no more than 10 minutes and the only thing to be discussed is where to send the scouting WB until T53 (we don't even have the choice to move the initial warrior) and that's why we decided to pause then.
My understanding of the spirit of a SUCCESSION game is "to play the game according to the team decision, but not everyone plays an equal length of session!" Edit: On the contrary, if 1 turn takes half hour as the the late stage of SGOTM12, how do you expect everyone to play 10 to 15 turns in a session? For myself, the meaningful stop point of a session is when there is something to be discussed so that sometime we only played 1 short turn. I don't think it makes sense to play short set when there's nothing to be discussed and only leads to the waste of time to pass save to another player.
Compromise
Emperor
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2006
- Messages
- 1,601
I decided to quickly test this by rolling up a few archipelago-archipelago maps.
Out of 3 test games that didn't have AI contact instantly (e.g. expanding borders revealed nearby neighbor contact), and just building buildings in the capital (i.e. no active exploring on my part), AI workboats found me after 72, 49, and 83 turns.
So, I agree with Kossin that it's normal not to have contact yet.
BornInCantaloup
Agent of Chaos
@Compromise : welcome 
@Alan : Other teams have made shorter sets already, true. We could upload the save now that we have some discussion going on.
I'm not sure what we should have done to make the set shorter, though. We could have stopped after the border pop in Paris but it didn't bring us any kind of vital information.
As far as the roster (yet to be done) is concerned... the turns we played are very straightforward.
Now if you feel we're pushing the set too much, maybe we should change the active player ? In any case, be sure that wasn't our intention to cross a rule.
On to the game :
Well played, Duckweed
We could do something like :
- 2,5 turns to go 1SW of the Stone
- 2,5 turns to go 1E of the Fish
turns to go 2N of the Crabs
- 3 turns to go 1N of the Crabs
- Depending on what is uncovered, 1 spare turn to scout 1 tile ahead in one of those directions.
It won't reveal much of the map but scouts 3 locations and leaves the workboat close by to scout the smallish islands.
If we want to reveal more of the map, then I would favour a Stone -> Fish path.
- Even though it doesn't provide another health resource, I think we have a default location 1NW of the 3rd clams, if ever scouting didn't reveal anything. It has a green hill + a resource and doesn't require a border pop to be operationnal.
- Duckweed was talking about settling the Fish. I'm not very excited at this idea : if we want the Fish in the 1st ring, then the city will have 2 desert tiles in its 1st ring as well. If there are floodplains in the area, though... that will be very different !
- Kossin mentionned possible resources near the crabs (silver / hunting-related). Downside : the land doesn't seem great either.
- The Stone is very appealing but we have little incentive to research Masonry right now, especially before Mysticism. We did mention Bureaucracy + Moai Statues + Colossus + Bureaucracy was worth it, though. The land looks great around there but it may be better suited for a 3rd city than a 2nd.
All in all, it depends on what resources we can discover.
Same for the tech path : we don't know our needs yet.
Ideally, the 2nd city wouldn't require much so we could go straight to the Oracle but...
@Alan : Other teams have made shorter sets already, true. We could upload the save now that we have some discussion going on.
I'm not sure what we should have done to make the set shorter, though. We could have stopped after the border pop in Paris but it didn't bring us any kind of vital information.
As far as the roster (yet to be done) is concerned... the turns we played are very straightforward.
Now if you feel we're pushing the set too much, maybe we should change the active player ? In any case, be sure that wasn't our intention to cross a rule.
On to the game :
Well played, Duckweed
Our galley will be ready on T61 and the 3rd workboat will be out on T53. This means we will have 9 turns to explore and find a settling location.
We could do something like :
- 2,5 turns to go 1SW of the Stone
- 2,5 turns to go 1E of the Fish
turns to go 2N of the Crabs
- 3 turns to go 1N of the Crabs
- Depending on what is uncovered, 1 spare turn to scout 1 tile ahead in one of those directions.
It won't reveal much of the map but scouts 3 locations and leaves the workboat close by to scout the smallish islands.
If we want to reveal more of the map, then I would favour a Stone -> Fish path.
I'll answer this separately from the scouting question, but both are related, obviously.
- Even though it doesn't provide another health resource, I think we have a default location 1NW of the 3rd clams, if ever scouting didn't reveal anything. It has a green hill + a resource and doesn't require a border pop to be operationnal.
- Duckweed was talking about settling the Fish. I'm not very excited at this idea : if we want the Fish in the 1st ring, then the city will have 2 desert tiles in its 1st ring as well. If there are floodplains in the area, though... that will be very different !
- Kossin mentionned possible resources near the crabs (silver / hunting-related). Downside : the land doesn't seem great either.
- The Stone is very appealing but we have little incentive to research Masonry right now, especially before Mysticism. We did mention Bureaucracy + Moai Statues + Colossus + Bureaucracy was worth it, though. The land looks great around there but it may be better suited for a 3rd city than a 2nd.
All in all, it depends on what resources we can discover.
Same for the tech path : we don't know our needs yet.
Ideally, the 2nd city wouldn't require much so we could go straight to the Oracle but...
Apologies for my short temper last night. Too little sleep and way too much to do!
I don't expect teams to play 10-turn sets throughout, of course. But your 60-turn set goes to another extreme, and did catch me off guard. I over-reacted.
Perhaps we are seeing one side-effect of the large amount of test mapping that goes on these days. Everyone on the team feels s/he has already played the opening several times before the real game is started, so there's little sense of excitement about how the opening will play out.
Please accept my apologies.
I don't expect teams to play 10-turn sets throughout, of course. But your 60-turn set goes to another extreme, and did catch me off guard. I over-reacted.
Perhaps we are seeing one side-effect of the large amount of test mapping that goes on these days. Everyone on the team feels s/he has already played the opening several times before the real game is started, so there's little sense of excitement about how the opening will play out.
Please accept my apologies.
BornInCantaloup
Agent of Chaos
I find this question very tricky.
Compared to most games, we will have built 3 workboats and 1 galley already, at the expense of expansion. That's a settler and a half.
We don't have much commerce and are very low on hammers.
We need a library sooner than later.
Our high happy cap (charismatic) + whipping being a necessity makes a granary attractive.
---> If the slingshot had an effect without requiring us to invest any more hammers, it would be great.
If we have copper, then Metal Casting is attractive. The Forge will be useful but long to build. Most likely a 2-3pop whip.
Can we grab something like Currency after self teching Mathematics. We have Stone for the HG (although it isn't a hurry). Currency's bonus trade routes could be cool with +3 commerce per city.
It would require us to build a library asap, I suppose : Writing before starting on Med->Priesthood.
Monarchy is a fine complement to the Bureau-Moai capital. But if we intend to rush a size 15 capital, then I guess Metal Casting is a better investment than Monarchy.
Code of Laws is fine for the cheap Courthouses + religion but maybe it is too much on the peaceful end of the tech tree...
So...
I guess MC and Currency are the techs I'd want to get from the Oracle. I'm not sure we can realistically aim for Currency, though.
EDIT :
Maybe yes. There's also the fact that we're starting on an island and therefore exploration is very slow. We haven't started exploring, as a matter of fact.
It is your job to control how the game goes... No need to apologize
srad
King
Scouting:
I would send the wb to the fish, stone area to get some more informations about the situation in this area.
Second city:
Depends on what the scouting reveals in the fish, stone area and how early do we target Moai.
Do we need the second city as stone city for early Moai?
Or is the third city as stone city sufficient? Then probably fish in the first ring for the second city makes sense.
So mid term we need to synchronize tech path + oracle + oracle tech + Moai + city placement.
Oracle tech:
MC would be probably the safest target but as BIC said Currency could be really nice.
Next techs that make sense:
Pottery -> Granaries for whipping
Writing -> OBs (if we meet AI) + Lib
Mysticism (Monuments for culture and happiness)
Meditation -> Priesthood for Oracle
1. Do we want Oracle and Moai in the capital?
2. Do we want to control the GP gene pool in the capital in some way? We could need several scientists for bulbing Astro. And one for an Academy.
3. What oracle date is 'safe' in this situation. Normally on Emperor before 1500BC looks good.
Oracle is a very undetermined thing in the game with the GLH AI. If we want to play it safe MC is the best bet. So starting immediately Myst -> Med -> Priest (Oracle) -> Pottery could be the choice.
I would send the wb to the fish, stone area to get some more informations about the situation in this area.
Second city:
Depends on what the scouting reveals in the fish, stone area and how early do we target Moai.
Do we need the second city as stone city for early Moai?
Or is the third city as stone city sufficient? Then probably fish in the first ring for the second city makes sense.
So mid term we need to synchronize tech path + oracle + oracle tech + Moai + city placement.
Oracle tech:
MC would be probably the safest target but as BIC said Currency could be really nice.
Next techs that make sense:
Pottery -> Granaries for whipping
Writing -> OBs (if we meet AI) + Lib
Mysticism (Monuments for culture and happiness)
Meditation -> Priesthood for Oracle
1. Do we want Oracle and Moai in the capital?
2. Do we want to control the GP gene pool in the capital in some way? We could need several scientists for bulbing Astro. And one for an Academy.
3. What oracle date is 'safe' in this situation. Normally on Emperor before 1500BC looks good.
Oracle is a very undetermined thing in the game with the GLH AI. If we want to play it safe MC is the best bet. So starting immediately Myst -> Med -> Priest (Oracle) -> Pottery could be the choice.
srad
King
How do you assume that we are near the north pole? I opened the save but I cannot see this. Are my fog gazing skills not jet enough developed?
I have no problem with this. Here I declare that my session is ended.
I'm in favor of playing the opening as that's my stronger part,
There's the hidden reason I mentioned several time in the previous SGs -- I always play lousy in the late stage of the game, which was one of the main reasons that caused us to lose SGOTM12.
53 turns were already too long for a team with enough active players. Therefore I am not going to play any turn in the rest of this game.How do you assume that we are near the north pole? I opened the save but I cannot see this. Are my fog gazing skills not jet enough developed?
The island north of crab has the sign of tundra.
Good analysis. The 2nd city can be used for pumping WBs, which we are going to need a lot in early stage. Finding AIs as early as possible is significant to increase the trade route income and get some research bonus as well.
srad
King
I hope to see you playing another set and my guess is sets will be much shorter from now on. But as everyone said there was really no need to stop before t53 and it would have been really a waste of time to change players before t53.
I could take the next set if that is fine for the team. If nothing special will happen then I'll stop at t60 where we have to choose the next tech.
For now we need a plan for the scouting. Suggestions? (I read BICs plan and I'll try to post a plan today or tomorrow evening)
some more thoughts on timing and things needed:
1. fast 2nd city with to possibility to get some wbs (+ lighthouse + monument + later granary) out. so we need a minimum of 1 seafood + 1 hill, for not relying only on whipping stuff. if we only would whip stuff, the city would run into happy problems sooner then later with only cheap stuff (pop 1) to whip...
2. we need one more health, so we can run our capital at the best point (which is size 5 on average, working the 2 hills and the 3 food -> grow to 6, whip to 4, regrow to 6)
3. we want the stone. we really want the stone. really. we want stone. but without masonry, we dont really need it right now. getting masonry + myst are something like 15 turns. enough to get the next settler there, so no top priority now. besides, we might want pottery first (granaries, still has to be tested)
4. oracle... ...are you really so sure we will get it?. since we wont start to build it in the next turnset anyways, i dont really feel motivated to speculate on what we should pick. i vote against building it btw. more settlers and stuff are better imho
-> that leaves us with the following options:
a) ship worker + settler to the clam + hill island and scout up north (crabs), then down to the fish, on to the stones. get the hill mined and worked asap. we have 3 turns without improvement but our second city has a hill to work. our capital gets another wb out to connect the clams.
b) find something usefull near the fish or crabs site. i still would stick ot the scouting plan above, going direction crabs first (desert near the fish stinks). if we have 8 scouting turns till our settler is ready to board the ship, so we can move 16 tiles with our wb. if we find something interesting, we can discuss a new plan.
...
next turnset should therefore be dedived into some smaller turns:
1. up to turn 61 (settler in galley)
2. to end (maybe with another break, if we find more interesting stuff on the water)
...
srad playing the next set is fine for me
1. fast 2nd city with to possibility to get some wbs (+ lighthouse + monument + later granary) out. so we need a minimum of 1 seafood + 1 hill, for not relying only on whipping stuff. if we only would whip stuff, the city would run into happy problems sooner then later with only cheap stuff (pop 1) to whip...
2. we need one more health, so we can run our capital at the best point (which is size 5 on average, working the 2 hills and the 3 food -> grow to 6, whip to 4, regrow to 6)
3. we want the stone. we really want the stone. really. we want stone. but without masonry, we dont really need it right now. getting masonry + myst are something like 15 turns. enough to get the next settler there, so no top priority now. besides, we might want pottery first (granaries, still has to be tested)
4. oracle... ...are you really so sure we will get it?. since we wont start to build it in the next turnset anyways, i dont really feel motivated to speculate on what we should pick. i vote against building it btw. more settlers and stuff are better imho
-> that leaves us with the following options:
a) ship worker + settler to the clam + hill island and scout up north (crabs), then down to the fish, on to the stones. get the hill mined and worked asap. we have 3 turns without improvement but our second city has a hill to work. our capital gets another wb out to connect the clams.
b) find something usefull near the fish or crabs site. i still would stick ot the scouting plan above, going direction crabs first (desert near the fish stinks). if we have 8 scouting turns till our settler is ready to board the ship, so we can move 16 tiles with our wb. if we find something interesting, we can discuss a new plan.
...
next turnset should therefore be dedived into some smaller turns:
1. up to turn 61 (settler in galley)
2. to end (maybe with another break, if we find more interesting stuff on the water)
...
srad playing the next set is fine for me
BornInCantaloup
Agent of Chaos
Duckweed, I didn't mean you ought to retire from now on. Sorry if I expressed myself badly or stepped too far ahead when I mentionned the possibility to change the active player. I didn't intend to. I was just trying to be compliant and not expecting an answer from you in particular, rather from AlanH or Kossin. Granted, that's not my role.
Yet, playing loosy in the endgame is no reason to decline playing another turnset May I say playing loosy is part of the game, at times ?
@Srad, about GPP "pollution" :
I'm not sure it is crucial to avoid it. In a way, getting more but random GPs is better than getting less but determined GPs. And in another way, it is worse, yes...
How many GS do we need ? I count 4 : Academy, Philosophy, Education, Astronomy.
Would we 2x bulb Astronomy ? I would tend to think a single bulb is enough.
@Scouting :
Scouting 2 resources only (Fish + Stone) would indeed allow to have knowledge of 3-4 tiles beyond those resources.
Scouting 3 areas is a bit tight on map knowledge.
Yet, playing loosy in the endgame is no reason to decline playing another turnset
May I say playing loosy is part of the game, at times ? @Srad, about GPP "pollution" :
I'm not sure it is crucial to avoid it. In a way, getting more but random GPs is better than getting less but determined GPs. And in another way, it is worse, yes...
How many GS do we need ? I count 4 : Academy, Philosophy, Education, Astronomy.
Would we 2x bulb Astronomy ? I would tend to think a single bulb is enough.
@Scouting :
Scouting 2 resources only (Fish + Stone) would indeed allow to have knowledge of 3-4 tiles beyond those resources.
Scouting 3 areas is a bit tight on map knowledge.
srad
King
Isn't the fish site better short term?
Fish city: 2 pop -> 5F, 3H + 1F for capital (+1 health)
Calm city: 2 pop -> 5F, 3H (no health for capital)
srad
King
Here are two proposals:
Blue route: Get some more knowledge of the GH, calm site and the stone. If nothing interesting near stone settle fish. WB will improve fish in time.
(Is the route possible? The step moving back into the culture from the southern island? )
Red route: Scout fish and if possible circle around the east site of the fish, stone island.
Spoiler :
Blue route: Get some more knowledge of the GH, calm site and the stone. If nothing interesting near stone settle fish. WB will improve fish in time.
(Is the route possible? The step moving back into the culture from the southern island? )
Red route: Scout fish and if possible circle around the east site of the fish, stone island.
here are my favorite routes:
View attachment 284323
green:
checks out the clam island and is ready to get the clams online at turn 61 (we need it only at turn 63 there, but we might go a detour somewhere which could cost said 2 turns)
purple:
checks out clams, then fish, then on to stone (route also marked up to turn 61)
green seems the most appealing to me so far, cause we can check out the crab island and still are in place with the wb if we settle the clam
@ srad:
we might consider putting the clam city on the hill, then we have 2 clams (we can borrow the clams from the capital in the beginning. and a monument we will need there anyways.)
having a 2 clam helper city early would really help, cause we could use it for 2 pop whips of whatever (monument + lighthouse + granary would be the frist buildings)
like that, we have a forest to whip (monument) + are free to go wherever we want with our scoutwb (we will only need a wb for said city after chopping the monument and getting the borderpop (20 turns?)
the capital then could start on the next settler at pop 4 (growing with 2 clam + corn to size 4, building a lighthouse), working corn, clam, 2hills and finish it with a 2pop whip, regrowing with finishing the lighthouse (should fit in well with giving back the clams from city 2)
...
whatever we decide, make a break during the next set after the settler is loaded into the galley (before moving it), or even better, once sailing is researched. id like to do some testing on our next moves, cause here it gets interesting. also the techchoice needs some consideration after seeing a bit more of the surrounding land
View attachment 284323
green:
checks out the clam island and is ready to get the clams online at turn 61 (we need it only at turn 63 there, but we might go a detour somewhere which could cost said 2 turns)
purple:
checks out clams, then fish, then on to stone (route also marked up to turn 61)
green seems the most appealing to me so far, cause we can check out the crab island and still are in place with the wb if we settle the clam
@ srad:
we might consider putting the clam city on the hill, then we have 2 clams (we can borrow the clams from the capital in the beginning. and a monument we will need there anyways.)
having a 2 clam helper city early would really help, cause we could use it for 2 pop whips of whatever (monument + lighthouse + granary would be the frist buildings)
like that, we have a forest to whip (monument) + are free to go wherever we want with our scoutwb (we will only need a wb for said city after chopping the monument and getting the borderpop (20 turns?)
the capital then could start on the next settler at pop 4 (growing with 2 clam + corn to size 4, building a lighthouse), working corn, clam, 2hills and finish it with a 2pop whip, regrowing with finishing the lighthouse (should fit in well with giving back the clams from city 2)
...
whatever we decide, make a break during the next set after the settler is loaded into the galley (before moving it), or even better, once sailing is researched. id like to do some testing on our next moves, cause here it gets interesting. also the techchoice needs some consideration after seeing a bit more of the surrounding land
Wow a ton of posts! My subscription didn't tell me about all of these hmm... I'll check that later.
@AlanH
Apology accepted, but then again I don't think you have to apologize - your house, your rules. We were simply defending our idea behind the move. No hard feelings
@others
Oracle: while skipping it means more settlers/workers, getting it puts us closer to the warring techs. It's "only" 225H and can get us quite a bit of beakers in return. Off-hand I don't think the extra hammers will pay off for the lost tech - without GLH, we can't spam cities as much as we'd like to in this situation. Since we'll be whipping quite a bit, Forges are very appealing to me, but mostly if we manage to grab Organized Religion to get them.
Techs: I would strongly consider early Alphabet if/once we start meeting AIs. Grabbing Iron Working/Mathematics/etc. without having to research them would be very good.
GPP: Based on what we know from the map, I more and more doubt the need for early astronomy... well it could be useful for Salons to get the free Artist I suppose but it would also obsolete 1 from Monuments. Don't think the capital will be our primary GPP site, it'd do more harm than good after the first 1/2 GP.
Scouting: If there's a seafood around the stone, I think we'll want the next city there. Even without Masonry, that's a 4-5F tile combined with a 1F4H tile (mine)... I very much doubt Fish alone can be better than that - and if there's a 2nd seafood then we still have to spend 45H to hook it up, I'd prefer have that 45H as a LH or as a scout.
Also note that we have until t63 to scout with the wb, not t61. The earliest the 2nd city can be made is t63 -> t61 embark+move, t62 move+disembark, t63 settle+Create Fishing Boat (CFB)... that's 11 turns in all, we can get a pretty good look at things.
Second city:
With what I said above in scouting, I also want to add that I'd put as a priority the good tiles in the FIRST ring of the city. Wasting 45H on a monument+15 turns for a border pop isn't much to my taste for the second city.
Presumably, we'll want to get a second exploring wb from this city before helping out with settlers/workers.
Tundra: I said there didn't seem to be any hills around the tundra part.. only one further west... so very low odds on silver (and remember this is hand crafted as evidenced by the grass stone hill). I wouldn't even send the wb there if I had time. However, we could look at other hilly areas for potential gold.
jungle
Since we know there's quite a bit of jungle around, we could expect gems/ivory/calendar goodies.
Length
I agree with Snaaty, let's play a short set until we are ready to settle city #2.
Therefore the most important thing (and only) we have to decide right now is: workboat scouting path.
Let's get drawing!
@Duckweed
As you said yourself, the first 50 turns take less than 10 minutes to play. I don't really think it's really fair to play 53 turns and then say you did the same in-game time playing as those late turns this time around (Although it'd probably be a nice change from SGOTM12 )
@srad
Sure, go ahead, next set is yours!
@AlanH
Apology accepted, but then again I don't think you have to apologize - your house, your rules. We were simply defending our idea behind the move. No hard feelings
@others
Oracle: while skipping it means more settlers/workers, getting it puts us closer to the warring techs. It's "only" 225H and can get us quite a bit of beakers in return. Off-hand I don't think the extra hammers will pay off for the lost tech - without GLH, we can't spam cities as much as we'd like to in this situation. Since we'll be whipping quite a bit, Forges are very appealing to me, but mostly if we manage to grab Organized Religion to get them.
Techs: I would strongly consider early Alphabet if/once we start meeting AIs. Grabbing Iron Working/Mathematics/etc. without having to research them would be very good.
GPP: Based on what we know from the map, I more and more doubt the need for early astronomy... well it could be useful for Salons to get the free Artist I suppose but it would also obsolete 1
from Monuments. Don't think the capital will be our primary GPP site, it'd do more harm than good after the first 1/2 GP.Scouting: If there's a seafood around the stone, I think we'll want the next city there. Even without Masonry, that's a 4-5F tile combined with a 1F4H tile (mine)... I very much doubt Fish alone can be better than that - and if there's a 2nd seafood then we still have to spend 45H to hook it up, I'd prefer have that 45H as a LH or as a scout.
Also note that we have until t63 to scout with the wb, not t61. The earliest the 2nd city can be made is t63 -> t61 embark+move, t62 move+disembark, t63 settle+Create Fishing Boat (CFB)... that's 11 turns in all, we can get a pretty good look at things.
Second city:
With what I said above in scouting, I also want to add that I'd put as a priority the good tiles in the FIRST ring of the city. Wasting 45H on a monument+15 turns for a border pop isn't much to my taste for the second city.
Presumably, we'll want to get a second exploring wb from this city before helping out with settlers/workers.
Tundra: I said there didn't seem to be any hills around the tundra part.. only one further west... so very low odds on silver (and remember this is hand crafted as evidenced by the grass stone hill). I wouldn't even send the wb there if I had time. However, we could look at other hilly areas for potential gold.
jungle
Since we know there's quite a bit of jungle around, we could expect gems/ivory/calendar goodies.
Length
I agree with Snaaty, let's play a short set until we are ready to settle city #2.
Therefore the most important thing (and only) we have to decide right now is: workboat scouting path.
Let's get drawing!
@Duckweed
As you said yourself, the first 50 turns take less than 10 minutes to play. I don't really think it's really fair to play 53 turns and then say you did the same in-game time playing as those late turns this time around
(Although it'd probably be a nice change from SGOTM12 )@srad
Sure, go ahead, next set is yours!
madviking
north american scum
Seeing as the stone/fish is probably be our next city (assuming no super-city site somewhere out in the fog), I think it'd be best to see what else is around the stone.
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