Good set R1. Our food, hammer and beaker boxes agree with my play-along version of the test save, so I think we can be confident the plan to whip the Oracle in T94 is on track.
just a few big picture questions
So are we going for an early forge and GE for some wonder in the future or not?
That forge basically replaces a second settler in the build queue. The value of the GE is to pop Colossus or GT. Glib or NE are too small to bother popping when we have marble. We might find copper somewhere soon, too. Colossus is nice for more
while we grow the empire up (e.g. at 11 cities 655AD T217 in a test game a while back, I measured that Colossus would add 30
/turn right then, so we'd have had about 60 turns of 10-35
for our 375
). However it is outdated by Astronomy, and there's nothing we've learned so far to counter our before-game expectation that we might need fast Astronomy. That game was one bulb away from Astronomy (guessing 15 turns, with the
bar one-third full and NE 5 turns away).
I think the value of a faster third city (for faster stone, for faster Duckweed-Pyramids, for faster spam of workboats and warriors) outweighs the value of trying for a short-term Colossus.
We will have the option of switching to a forge after the second settler if we've found copper with our exploring workboat. Do recall that Bureau+Colossus+Maoi(stone) might be playable.
GE could also bulb machinery.
If we don't I'm assuming we get a Great Prophet first which presumably we settle in the capital. However, we can try to dilute the GP pool with scientist specialists for a chance at a GS first.
Nice idea. The timing is tough to get decent odds on a GS... Sailing finishes about T91, when we probably need Masonry (to get the stone quarry going around T100) and then Writing (finishing about T110). Then we have to build a library (135
) from (probably) just one Gmine+whip in time to get two scientists running noticeably before T144 when the GProphet pops. I can see Fish Hills building Workboat(T99), Warrior(T107), Lighthouse(1-whip T110) and we'd take about 10 turns to regrow to size 6 to 3-whip the library to run fish and two scientists with 2
excess. With about 25 turns of just the Oracle (2
), we'd then run 14 turns of two scientists (6
) plus Oracle (2
) which makes for near enough to a 50-50 chance of either type (150
required).
Meanwhile CC built granary, lighthouse, galley by about T95, and has since built settler+warrior and is now chewing on a third settler while it gets happy again - no monument or further explorers yet. So the Duckweed position is not yet established and we're still in the map-dark.
Thoughts?
It is looking more and more likely that we will need astronomy, so bulbing the path to Astronomy with GSs is looking more likely, so we want to get as many GS as we can I assume.
Agree, fast Astronomy looks likely to be required. If so, then it makes sense to beeline that. However, do we want to try for Duckweed-GLib before that? Requires a tech path of Masonry-Writing-CoL-Aes-Lit-Machinery-IW-Compass-Optics, with Maths and Calendar worked in somewhere suitable,
If we do go for the early forge it makes whipping out any wonders in the capital a bit awkward as mab was suggesting. In order to ensure the GE we also probably will need to slow the rate of gpp in other cities (i.e. we wouldn't run any scientists in the Oracle city until the GE pops).
We'd have to work hard at running any such specialists by about T150 when we'd get the GE...
That said, if we might build Pyramids, library, GLib, NE, theatre, GT, barracks in the capital, that forge will pay off earlier if we build it earlier...
There is something to be said for slowing empire growth before we've got the Pyramids to start paying for it all...
Right now I think the best plan is to whip-OF duckweed style the pyramids (based on my own testing and mabraham's testing)
-allows for faster expansion and gets the pyramids at about the same time as a forge-GE
pyramids
-gives a chance at a GS first, doesn't limit our early gpp production
That seems the right approach to me, though we should reconsider as we find out more map information with our explorer(s).
I think the forge can be built later if we find gold/silver/gems and/or copper. Which makes the colossus more attractive. The forge could conceivably be built in another city if the capital is busy with settlers/pyramids.
I really don't see us having time to get a side city with infrastructure in time to get the Colossus by T170 or so.
It was suggested that we can use a GE for the Globe Theater. But is the Globe theater necessary? I mean we can draft from all of our cities if we have just a little bit of excess happiness resources. I think this is likely especially because when we make contact with the AI we should be able to trade for several happiness resources. That would allow for a phase of drafting about the time we really need to do it (just a little time after astronomy).
Not building the Globe theater will save quite bit of time (tech wise and hammer wise - drama not required and no theaters necessary and the long build time of the GT doesn't need to slow our drafting down)
Actually, I expect we'll be using the
culture slider for happiness. If we're isolated, we won't be getting these trades until about 900AD,
if we have something to trade for them. AIs don't give gold for clam all that often.
I don't think you are envisaging enough drafting. Drafting a musket from size 6 to 5 turns 48 food (halved by granary) into 120
every 15 turns. That's about the best value you can ever get in this game. We have to do that with extreme prejudice, regularly for the rest of the game (not just in a phase). In the test game that I played out until I was sure of victory, I drafted the GT city every turn it could,
and the other 10-15 cities on a 15-turn rotation. I should probably have been more a little more harsh than that. All of our side hammers have to go into siege, spies, pikes and boats. Troops to kill AI units have to be drafted, all the time, for the rest of the game.
The Globe Theatre costs 450
itself, and 6x75
for the prereq theatres. Those theatres return 1
for dyes (if we find them), and 1
per culture slider point, which we should already be using. I discussed this point in this thread a while back. It synergizes with a specialist economy. So we'll get some value for those theatres for themselves, not just for the GT.
The GT itself pays back its hammers and build time in about of four turns (4*120>450), and does so in a city that is pretty poor at production otherwise. Long term you get two muskets every three turns. That's 80
/turn. How else can that be achieved? The only alternative use for the masses of food in CC would be to keep spamming settlers to capture more island-land for Domination.
(so whip of galley gets rid of the 
And speaking of baseball, Go Braves! [/I solemnly swear I am up to no good]
Toward the end of the spreadsheet, it shows the Worker boarding the Galley, but the Galley sailing SE, SE. Would it not be better to have the Galley take the Worker to the island west of CC, so that he could chop the Forest there into the Settler build?
