[Sword of Islam]: Byzantine Conquest

AnotherPacifist said:

To do:
1. Rinse and repeat with the Timurids. I specifically didn't eliminate their horse so they can build horse archers which have no defensive capability. Our starting expansion stability was -161, and with the above measures it's down to -153.
2. Constantinople is going to spawn a great person in 2 turns. I have assigned a priest (and there's a decent chance for that to happen) so we can get another golden age.

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In order to minimize our risk we shouldn't capture any cities that we cannot liberate back to the Timurids immeatidely. Meaning that they are already eager to make peace.

We already have the required GPs for two Golden Ages (we also get one from the Taj Mahal, which equals a total of 36 turns of GA).

Jusos2108 said:

In order to minimize our risk we shouldn't capture any cities that we cannot liberate back to the Timurids immeatidely. Meaning that they are already eager to make peace.

We already have the required GPs for two Golden Ages (we also get one from the Taj Mahal, which equals a total of 36 turns of GA).

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My thought was to spare the great engineers so we can build the wonders quickly. Unless we have time for 3 more different great people besides the saint, i.e. not a GE.

Bukhara and Khiveh are in their territory, so they are automatically liberatable (if that's a word). In fact, they are so poor that they will probably accept any city we give them (just like Dharamsala that we gave to KoC).

Don't sign peace treaties, just do cease fires--that way we can declare on them whenever we want, as many times as we want.

Well, do we want to do sets of 20 turns? I don't really have an opinion on the matter. Anyhow, I can play tonight wheter AP does another ten turns first or not.

How many techs do we have left to get? Meaning, will it be tech rather than Mughals that will be what limits our victory timing?

AnotherPacifist said:

Bukhara and Khiveh are in their territory, so they are automatically liberatable (if that's a word). In fact, they are so poor that they will probably accept any city we give them (just like Dharamsala that we gave to KoC).

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We can't liberate them immeatidely, if they don't want to talk to us.

rrosen said:

Well, do we want to do sets of 20 turns? I don't really have an opinion on the matter. Anyhow, I can play tonight wheter AP does another ten turns first or not.

How many techs do we have left to get? Meaning, will it be tech rather than Mughals that will be what limits our victory timing?

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I would rather play ten turns sets.

We might not be able to finish the tech tree before the Mughals show up. (though remember these estimates are without the golden age boost)
City planning 8
Civic Architecture 17
Navigation 17
Naval Ordnance 16
Imperialism 18
Flintlock 20
Military science 20
Future tech 39 (!)

That's like 150 turns! We seriously need to dismantle some of our forces. Consider giving away a city or 2 temporarily.

We probably want to raze Tungul and Samarkand and then rebuild them with fresh settlers (so we can get free buildings) when we want to.
Let's hear from blizzrd whether he wants to do 20 turns.

Jusos2108 said:

We can't liberate them immeatidely, if they don't want to talk to us.

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They will talk to us after 2 turns of war. Cease fire will allow talks.

Why would we need to tech Future Tech?

AnotherPacifist said:

They will talk to us after 2 turns of war. Cease fire will allow talks.

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Yes, but if we wait couple turns after the declaration and only then capture their cities, when they are willing to talk to us, the negative stability from controlling them doesn't affects us at all.

Jusos, I see your point now about talks, though I haven't tried it.

Ah, so we're going by the Germany UHV by NOT needing to tech Future Tech to complete the tech tree. That's fine with me.

Turn 0, 1452: Change Smyrna from wealth to reserach.

Turn 1, 1454: We have only orthodoxy in Anatolia. Orthodoxy is at 63%, with 75% being the religious victory criterion. I move the strike force away from Tungul, since I don't want to capture or raze it now. Razing and rebuilding requires us to have one of the three possible missionary slots used, whom we want for other reasons once we start capturing Armenia/koC/AKK/Timurid/Mughals.



Turn 2, 1456: Two Turkomen horse archers killed. We get a great spy. Byzantine revolt in Acre, so if we are lucky we might disband the city for free. We are at 37 stability. Turbat razed and a light cavalry placed there. Only rebel city remaining is Tungul.



Turn 3, 1458: Perre lose its church to infiltrators. Several barbarian incursions are defeated. Stability at 39.

Turn 4, 1460: Compass researched, navigation next in 14 turns. We've had to decrease science to 90%.

Turn 5, 1462: Not much happening.

Turn 6, 1464: Uneventful.

Turn 7, 1466: We lose one of our assasins in Armenia. War with Timurids.

Turn 8, 1468: We get an opportunity to do mischief with Ak Konyunlu, but we want to keep those improvements for pillaging.


Turn 9, 1470: Bukhara and Kniveh captured, cease fire with timurids. We are now at 45 stability (-152 expansion).


Turn 10, 1472: Uneventful.

Situation in general:
Armenia is not building any of the wonders in question.
Orthodoxy at 61%.
100% science is not sustainable, so we have to drop down to 90% every now and then.
After 1500, we will get the Portugese, Bukhara and Safavid (1,5 turn sets). How should we handle them? Deprive Portugal of all cities? I guess Goa will spawn, we should prevent/kill it. Khanate of Bukhara will replace the Timurid as our stability punchbags, I guess. What should we do about the Safavids?
Stability is 45, so we have no need for golden ages at the moment. If we are to have one, I would get out of Serfdom to get Free Labor (extra gold from towns). As for economy, it feels like agrarianism is more useful than the other alternatives.

I would save those Orthodox cathedrals (like the one you're building in Egypt) for AFTER we declare war on Ak Koyunlu/Armenia (when we'll lose piety). Plus, we don't need more land tiles in places we shouldn't have been in.

Be careful with unprotected workers in India. There are often barbs that spawn east of Dhara Nagari. (I think there are some scripted Mongols too from the north)

You can squeeze a little more science out of Smyrna if you switch the engineers to scientists.

We should declare war on Safavids the moment their units appear (but before they flip any cities), and then the next turn kill/raze everything. A road towards their spawn spot might be useful.

We don't need to worry about the Portuguese at all...they have no cities to capture! Let them roam around in the Indian Ocean! Don't let them discover Tungul though.

I'll be ready to play tomorrow night.

There are some resources near Khambhat that are not hooked up (no Farm on Rice, no Plantation on Dye).

We should spread Catholicism to another 13 cities to increase the output from the Catholic Shrine. Similarly, Hinduism should be spread to another 15 cities and Shia Islam should be spread to another 2 cities. We should target cities with surplus happiness and/or major science outputs when spreading religions (outside of Thrace and Anatolia obviously).

If the borders of Sana'a expand once more, we can hook up Coffee, which I think is the only resource that we don't have access to currently. Try to prioritise another culture building in Sana'a after University finishes to this end.

We should probably keep one Assassin around the border with Armenia/Ak Koyunlu (Perre?) to detect incoming enemy espionage units. After recently losing an Assassin, we should build another to get back to 3x Assassins.

Our remaining Great Galleys with Greek Fire should be upgraded.

Yeah, I think the culture near Khambhat just expanded. The workers were previously milking the cow and collecting the honey near Dhara Nagari. I had also stationed some workers near Thatta for the sulfur in the next culture expansion.

Do we really want to take the hit in stability with more religions if we don't adopt religious freedom? (see stability.py and look for "instability from non-state religion")

I don't have a problem with adopting Free Religion. Just have to keep purging heathens from Anatolia if they spread here. We should wait until our Golden Age to switch civics of course.

There's also a stability boost from adopting free labor+ free religion. The cost is higher though, but maybe the extra commerce from towns and faster growth of cottages/hamlets might be enough to outweigh the cost.

Actually, religious freedom doesn't mean we lose the state religion. Which is good because we keep Al-Azhar's power even if we lose the Spiral Minaret.

BTW, I propose that the Shalimar Gardens, Red Fort, Taj Mahal should be built in Smyrna (to maximize great people generation). The only exceptions should be the ones that require religions (e.g. the Shah Mosque, Vijay Stambha and Imam Reza Shrine). The Bridge of 33 Arches would be best served by a rivered city like Hamah (Dorylaion has 10 less hammers but as many rivers--too bad it can't grow further and use the 4 other tiles that are unused now).

We can't build the Shahnameh in Dwarka because we've gone past the Mongol Invasions Era.

If we want to build any Galleons or Frigates we'll need a drydocks somewhere (probably in the Persian Gulf).

Edit: Done!

Turn 0: 1472 AD: Nothing

Turn 1: 1474 AD: Masqat finishes courthouse; begins foundry. Other cities prioritize science and commerce buildings. Kill pair of barb camels outside Tungul.

Turn 2: 1476 AD: Sana'a finishes university; begins Hippodrome. Barbs capture Kineveh

Turn 3: 1478 AD: Barbs capture Bukhara

Turn 4: 1480 AD: Timurids are history. Destroy barb marksman near Sana'a. Lose an Arquibesier while trying to dislodge a barb horseman from incense.

Turn 5: 1482 AD: Incense plantation near Sana'a pilliaged by barbs; workers in Egypt drop their current tasks to replace it. Acre flips to us and I disband it.
The stack waiting outside Acre is dispatched to Yemen, which is vulnerable to Barbarians, but I kill a barb swordsman first. Except for the siege, which I send to the outskirts of Tungul.
Free Marksman sent to Jerusalem to help ward off Hashemite Barbs.

Turn 6: 1484 AD: Cairo begins working on arquebesier, this one is earmarked for Sana'a, which lost its arquebesier earlier. Trapezounta Serfs revolt. Samarkand attempts to defect.

Turn 7: 1486 AD: Navigation learned; Naval Ordinance is up next. Drydocks are being built in Bandar-e-Abbas and should be built in other coastal cities once they finish foundries.

Turn 8: 1488 AD: Nothing interesting; kill barbs, build economy, build forts on resources outside borders, commit arborcide.

Turn 9: 1490 AD: Nothing interesting; kill barbs, build economy, build forts on resources outside borders, commit arborcide.

No Heathens have entered Anatolia.
What should we do if Samarkand defects to us? I'm tempted to disband it and keep Bukhara instead (after the khanate respawn). What are your thoughts?

Science Rules said:

Turn 6: 1484 AD: Cairo begins working on arquebesier, this one is earmarked for Sana'a, which lost its arquebesier earlier.

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Can we please just build units in cities with settled Great Generals?

What should we do if Samarkand defects to us? I'm tempted to disband it and keep Bukhara instead (after the khanate respawn). What are your thoughts?

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We need one of these cities. Bukhara will respawn as an indy/barb city (it has already done so several times), not sure that Samarkand will respawn though?

Uh, Cairo has two settled Great Military Instructors.

I dunno about the respawns, but I'm tempted to say that Bukhara looks like a better city to keep than Samarkand.

Samarkand is more productive than Bukhara, which has more tiles that cannot be used (deserts). Yes, Samarkand has more peaks, but once it grows it can use almost all the usable tiles (except for a hill or two).
I also think it's got more infrastructure than the oft-ravaged Bukhara.

Safavids are about to appear. If the Armenians/Ak Koyunlu declare war after the flip, maybe we should do the same.